Short fiction vs. the novel

Discussion in 'Education and Academia' started by Jacen McCullough, Jul 28, 2004.

  1. Jacen McCullough

    Nov 23, 1998
    Maryland
    Hey all,

    One thing that always seemed to annoy me when I was in grade school was that every English teacher I had seemed to be obsessed with teaching novels. Many of them (A Seperate Peace, Ethan Frome etc) weren't even good novels. I'm a huge proponent of teaching predominantly from short stories. I think that the students with a natural ability for English will still enjoy them and the students who have trouble with the subject (the "math heads") will still be able to do the work and have the sense of accomplishment when they actually finish an assignment that often isn't there with novels (since they often don't finish them).

    Where does everyone here fall in that debate? Are you pro-novel or pro-short story? If the latter, which novels do you see as essential to be included in the curriculum? Which short stories do you like to teach or have had success with?
     
  2. Iceblink

    Iceblink Member

    Oct 11, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think a well-rounded curriculum needs both... and more. If you had teachers who taught novel after novel after novel, then he or she was probably losing half the students.

    Short fiction is great, too, but then the students end up with short attention spans and can't read through a whole novel by the time they get to college.

    You need novels and short stories and poems and essays and plays and MORE!!! The one thing I really don't like, but find necessary, is excerpts of novels. Sometimes it's ok, but it's terrible when you're teaching a really good novel that needs to be taken in its entirety.

    I throw everything at my students. That constant changing of what we're doing keeps things fresh!!!
     
  3. elainemichelle

    elainemichelle New Member

    Jul 20, 2002
    Elaine's List of Favorite Books from School

    The Prince by Macchiavelli. I believe all students inany sort of government class need to be taught this book. Seems to work best as a summer assignment, would work just as well for Christmas.

    To Kill a Mockingbird- Harper Lee. Good to read, maybe a short multiple choice test with a couple short essay q's, couple class discussions, do not overteach.

    The Great Train Robbery- Michael Crichton. Good for showing victorian england.
     
  4. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    I'd like to know at what point novella becomes a novel.
     
  5. fiddlestick

    fiddlestick New Member

    Jul 17, 2001
    The 4 8 0
    When you get to the chapter about Santiago's defection and trip to Yankee Stadium.
     
  6. Iceblink

    Iceblink Member

    Oct 11, 1999
    Chicago
    Club:
    Ipswich Town FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure what you mean by this. I'm not the type to dwell on every single word, but there are some pretty important things in this book.

    When I've taught this, I've done some activities surrounding the trial - point of view essays and stuff... where the students assume the identities of participants and write about experiences... sometimes a journal as well.

    In truth, you'll probably find that most of the new teachers won't do multiple choice tests. I don't... ever. I do mostly short answer. I don't do that just to make things harder for the students... actually it's harder for me to grade! But I want their reactions, input, etc. I ask questions that really get to the heart of the material. Multiple choice just doesn't do that. Studies have shown that if you give a multiple choice test, the students that didn't read the material average around 70% correct. The students that did read the material also average around 70% correct...

    I like activities and projects and papers far more.

    But, really, I want to get to this whole overteaching thing. I would know what you mean if we were talking about a poem... say, a dinky little thing... but talking about every poetical convention, etc.

    But with this book... there's just so much in it! You need a historical background... a look at the setting. You need to talk about race relations.

    I'd be afraid to underteach.

    Let me know! This could be useful!
     
  7. Caesar

    Caesar Moderator
    Staff Member

    Mar 3, 2004
    Oztraya
    Multiple choice tests are excellent for content-heavy theory-based subjects such as accounting. Recently CPA Australia switched to multiple-choice testing as their prime method for accreditation. Their research apparently showed that (for the discipline) a well-constructed multiple-choice test with more than one correct answer is the hardest test to pass.

    However, they universally suck in conceptual subjects like English. The whole point of the subject is to explore themes and underlying issues. You can't do this adaquately when you're using a cut-and-dried method like MC. It's less exploration and more identification, which lends itself to students who skim the book or watch the movie and don't actually analyse the content.
     
  8. GringoTex

    GringoTex Member

    Aug 22, 2001
    1301 miles de Texas
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    I hate short stories. Most I've read are too self-absorbed. I believe the novel format forces the author to play down his/her personality, which is always a good thing.
     
  9. elainemichelle

    elainemichelle New Member

    Jul 20, 2002
    We had this the summer b/t my freshmen and sophomore year. All of Honors English had to read it. The IB kids had Mrs Hannah. She spent a week's worth of class time with it (one day of mythology, followed by a day of TKAMB, etc.) over a period of two weeks. The other kids had Mrs Watson. She spent an entire quarter on it.

    Things like that work really well. Kids like activities where you can get up and move around and talk. Everyone hates journals.

    Understandable.

    See those are the important things. There's no need to cover every minute detail. Brush over the important things and give a test.
     
  10. elainemichelle

    elainemichelle New Member

    Jul 20, 2002
    I also recommend The Pearl by Steinbeck (I don't know why though, I thought it was weird), A Doll('s) House by Ibsen, and Metamorphosis by Kafka.

    For essays things by EB White. I also liked Marrakech by Orwell.
     
  11. DoctorJones24

    DoctorJones24 Member

    Aug 26, 1999
    OH
    I know what Gringo's getting at here, even though I wouldn't go that far. It's also not necessarily the self-absorbtion I dislike (many of my favorite novels are completely self-absorbed), but probably just my good old fashioned desire for "character." I never read short stories outside of a classroom, probably because there just isn't enough time to care about the characters.

    But still, they are great teaching tools if used correctly and in conjunction with other genres.
     
  12. Jacen McCullough

    Nov 23, 1998
    Maryland

    I'd agree with this to a certain extent, but you seem to be looking at the short stories from a scholarly viewpoint. I'm not. In a high school classroom, odds are less than half will like to (or in some cases even be able to) read anything. The reason I like to make extensive use of short stories in my mock lesson plans is that they are something most of the kids can finish. I knew so many people in High school who didn't share my love of reading. They would never finish the novels. They would then fail the tests and that would reinforce their distaste for reading. Bringing in short stories can break the cycle. Upper level students can still enjoy them for their literary merit. Struggling students are more likely to finish the story and do better than usual on the exam. It could give them a boost to their self esteem that they accomplished something in a subject they didn't like and thought they were terrible at.

    Having said that, Iceblink's answer was perfect. Why can't you teach in Maryland, 'Blink? I've been hearing horror stories about some of the folks who I might get stuck with as mentor teachers during my student teaching!
     
  13. nicodemus

    nicodemus Member+

    Sep 3, 2001
    Cidade Mágica
    Club:
    PAOK Saloniki
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Get the kids some stuff out of Granta for short stuff. Some of its crap, but a lot of its good stuff.

    Oh yeah, they need both.
     

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