In response to Gerrard... * I don't think a lot of people realize that he started his career making cameos at RB for Houllier's Liverpool. And, he also played RWB in the 2005 CL final for the last 30+ minutes. It's the one position his skill set is perfectly suited. You don't need tactical nous to run up and down the touchline, slide tackle, and whip in long balls. Gerrard's best position for any manager (under Benitez) was as a right-sided midfielder in '06/'07. He played his best football during this time.* "Real catenaccio" did not have a RWB nor did "zona mista." They had a right winger that tracked back.In response to the speed of my backs... * I was hoping people would realize that sitting back and defending deep negates space behind the CBs, thus it renders their "speed" a moot point. They are there to win the ball and launch it forward or outlet it wide to Gerrard/Carlos. I think this is the third draft in a row that I've had first _and_ last place votes. But, this is the first time I didn't finish in the Top 5 - which was a bit of a surprise.
Well, I had one person tell me Gerrard was employed really well in that role. I won't "out" him, but I bet you'd all change your tune if I did. At least, I didn't employ Iniesta as a box-to-box CM. I kid!
I've just had some seriously funny looks, after bursting into laughter reading this (I had tears) ....only because this was part of my futile defence for sticking Fletcher back at RB (He'd done a very good job when put there by SAF). I think I was told at that point...'well that's nice, but this is an all time draft'. Take it from someone with experience 26, best to just let it go.
If God himself, with the ghosts of legends past (if he\they existed) appeared before me and tried to tell me that positioning was inspired, I wouldn't change my tune.
Excluding the banned players round, you had 16 failed picks - the same as Akoebar in the second Sheep Draft. Breitner'sWig came close with 15 this year.
Wow, how did you get that info so quick. Nice one. I remember it was pretty brutal for my first draft on BS. Edit: and with Breitner getting 15 this year and coming last, just shows the impact it can have (obviously I suppose).
I don't think Gerrard is much of a reach in that formation. Playing that way, and with Varela in front of the centre backs positioning is not the prime factor in determining what you want from your wing back. It may struggle against top quality wingers, but there are far more teams in the draft that are narrow on the left flank than wide and in that situation the right central defender can pick up the threat.
I looked it up after BW's repeated fails earlier in the draft. I'll look up the fewest picks from all three drafts tomorrow.
Is very appreciated the full analysis mate. I also appreciate the position you put me, players like Cueto and Spencer were among the best players in the history of South America and, although I don't know exactly the reasons why everyone voted for me in different positions apart of you, I suspect that perhaps were not well known and understood the risk involved choosing some players. Congratulations nicephoras, I'll try to publish my full analysis.
I'm glad to see a second full analysis. About your analysis of me, definitely one of the greatest right-backs ever as Djalma Santos would have enhanced my team but I think Maicon was really a very good option there. I thought much about Pirri before choosing him, as I often read much about the most of you in the forum and I've already participated in previous drafts, I notice a trend here on some players and I've the impression that Pirri is forgotten, in my own rankings he's at the level of Zito or "Pipo" Rossi, a sweeper predecessor of Beckenbauer who played exactly like him when went to the midfield and would be a great link with a type of sweeper like Elías Figueroa and a so holding attacking midfielder like César Cueto. Particularly, I believe would be a great pair of triangulations there.
Regarding the above (reply to Karloski): I just realised BreitnersWig matched my total failed picks in 3 drafts excluding the banned players round in his one draft!. I seem to remember Akoeber and Excape Goat would've had less fails last year if not for continually picking the same player. I thought BillyIreland might've had a few in year one although most of them might've been in the opening rounds. Dark Savante made a lot of picks that year too IIRC. Here's my record of failed picks: 2010 - Pele (first pick, got Michael Laudrup), Johan Cruyff, Johan Neeskens (1st and 2nd picks, got Dietmar Hamann), John Charles (first pick, got Anton Ondrus). I did have 3 fails in the banned players round too in that first draft though with Van Basten, Cruyff and Redondo before getting Nils Liedholm so I've had more fails than Breitner'sWig in total. 2011 - Franz Beckenbauer (first pick, got Michael Laudrup), Eusebio (first pick, got Jean Tigana), Johan Neeskens, Fernando Redondo (1st and 2nd picks, got Vladimir Jugovic), Gaetano Scirea (first pick in double round, got Dragan Dzajic), Bixente Lizarazu (first pick, got Gerard Pique). 2012 - Zico (first pick in double round, got Kenny Dalglish and then picked up Zico in round 10), Pele and Gianni Rivera (first picks in double round) then Zito (second pick, got Trapattoni on 2nd and Gilmar on 3rd pick), Jean Tigana (first pick, got Rui Costa).
From this, the fewest failed picks each year (excluding the final round) are as follows: Sheep Draft 1 dor02 - 2 fails PDG & lamps>gerrard - 4 fails Sheep Draft 2 Delroy Facey & Maniac Butcher - 3 fails schwuppe, 26 & Triton - 4 fails (Triton had 3 fails in the first round and 1 in the second) Sheep Draft 3 Excape Goat & asf - 4 fails. As far as I can see, no-one else had 4 or fewer fails in any year.
Not in any sort of detail. For me, asf would have been 1st then nicephoras 2nd. Then a gap to several others. Cevno would have been right up there if he had a better left back.
Do you have asf's team down as the best of the 3 drafts or would you put any from the previous two years ahead (I appreciate you might not have thought about this before I asked though)? Would you have had Cevno top with the same left-back but with Eusebio at centre-forward and Charles in central defence? Personally I think that would have been among the top candidates for best draft team yet (even considering the Auction Draft), but of course it's speculation and we all had significant failed picks at times that would've given us greater teams... - he tried Eusebio in round 10 though this time unless I mis-read or mis-remembered.
Difficult to say without really looking into it. As a general thought, I really liked Excape Goat's teams from the first 2 drafts, schwuppe's from the first draft and Karloski's from last year.
Interesting to get your thoughts (although I don't blame you for not wanting to do a full breakdown each time - in the All-Time Draft last year I considered myself more of a participant than organiser as I didn't set any criteria and I was voting too, but if I was doing a Sheep Draft I'd prefer not to rank every team myself). Your thoughts are pretty close to the concensus by the looks of it although I did notice you picked out schwuppe's first team and he won with his second one.
That was definately my thought generally too - but I had a think about Cevno's team with Eusebio in it (which didn't happen though) and it seemed to compare ok to me. Not saying it would be above your Auction team though in my mind actually, or mine for that matter . But overall I think the Auction Draft teams should all come at or near the top in a Sheep Draft (even though there'd be player duplications). Running out of money and getting cautious with nominations might've been the main hinderence in that draft.
My Final Ranking: 1. Twenty26Six I really like this team despite some criticism. Hierro, Koeman and da Guia were all very offensive defenses, maybe only two of them would like something weak defensively but three of them seems sufficiently complementary, especially with Varela in front. Roberto Carlos always seems me very underrated in BigSoccer, with a 3-men line in the bottom and certain freedoms to go to the attack must be the best of all-time. Gerrard by right has been criticized but I think it's a position that he not only knows, but played very well thanks to his vast energy. I don't think that he should be taken just as a side player there, but as a free-role midfielder. Suárez and Laudrup seems a perfect combination of high playmakers, Kopa great free in the attack and Henry as left forward. Just only to complete the team, Fillol is a great goalkeeper there. A very complete and quality team.
2. Cevno Another great team, I didn't know to choose between him and Twenty26Six, in fact I even think it was over him if not for... for... Alan Kennedy. A sheep is an expensive cost in this game, especially to tempt the first place. Yashin, Carlos Alberto, Santamaría, Krol, Monti, Xavi, Zidane, Meazza, Rivaldo and Charles?, too high and very functional team. 3. nicephoras The pair of Di Stéfano and Valentino Mazzola impressed me, and exceptional playmaking and attaking pair, apart of that there is Romário. The rest of the team is great so I can only explain why I didn't choose him as first. Bozsik and Breitner are great players but I feel Bozsik needs a steady player in defensive tasks. Bertoni is a very good player in front but at this level I'd say he's only a mid-level player. 4. Karloski The 80's pack of Matthäus, Platini and Gullit seems me great, Dzajic and Sindelar a complement of high quality. He had a very good defense for our times but I think doesn't have a such quality to go against the greatest offensive genius of all-time and Belletti further decreases his average level. Chilavert was a great goalkeeper but I think he wasn't one of the very best (Top 20).
There's a bit more to it than running up and down the touchline. It's a constant judgement call whether you should be an attacking threat or a protecting your centre backs from being stretched. There's no way Gerrard is reliable enough to do that at this level. No way what so ever. He's an attacking threat from whatever position he plays in, but that's the problem - you can put him at centre back and get the same sort of positional problems if you like. He's 32 and up until this summer he's looked uncontrollable at international level. Don't let him being good in the tackle fool you. At this kind of level he's no real protection, especially for a 3 man defence. I keep seeing this every so often and I don't get it: people thinking wingbacks need no defensive abilities. In fact I spoke with a group of Barca fans a while back and they seemed in agreement that they wanted Gareth Bale and that they would play him at left back. I pointed out I had seen Bale at left back in the flesh and it was a massacre, but this didn't even register with them. They seemed to be questioning me why a left back might need any defensive abilities. I really don't understand it.
No problem, a quick explanation is the least you all deserve. I'm unconvinced about Maicon defensively (in fact, see my post above re: some people's views of full backs/wing backs). I take your points about Pirri though, I guess he was a difficult one to judge being a player I know a little less about than most picks in this draft. I guess if you had upgraded just one of them it would have made a big difference to my ratings.
But with 3 central defenders and a defensive midfielder in front, there's less emphasis on the defensive aspect. Gerrard is not ideal in that position, but he would be by no means a negative.
I don't buy it. Most of the left wingers in this draft - figo, czibor, dzajic, gento - will have a field day out there. Hierro would be in knots by 90 minutes. That would be my instruction vs them: get it out wide and they will get pulled apart.