Shawn Barry at Korona Kielce

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by Sandon Mibut, Aug 18, 2010.

  1. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    FSV Frankfurt had financial problems long before they went down to the third division. They actually did remarkably well for a time, but in the end Frankfurt is too small for having two pro clubs long-time. Only Berlin, Hamburg and Munich can support two (in England, a city like Frankfurt could probably have two Premier League clubs easily, but that's not really how it works in Germany). FSV Frankfurt did well with a modest budget for many years in the 2. Bundesliga, but they still had to spend more than they were earning.

    The drop from the 3. Liga to the Regionalliga is also a pretty large one. It's probably like going from League 1 in England straight into the National League North/South. Back in the early 90s this was even more extreme, when you dropped from the nationwide, full-time 2. Bundesliga directly into the amateur Oberliga (today's fifth division) - today this system would be impossible to finance, but there wasn't that much money in the game back then. Sugar daddies who would be willing to finance a 3. Liga level budget in the Regionalliga are pretty rare in Germany.
     
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  2. DC_Dave

    DC_Dave Member+

    DC United
    United States
    May 16, 2017
    Starting on the Bench for Korona in a friendly against AEK (Greece)

    Down 0 - 1 after 30 min / 1st half
     
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  3. DC_Dave

    DC_Dave Member+

    DC United
    United States
    May 16, 2017
    Off the bench at 62 minute mark - Korona still down 0 - 1
     
  4. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    can you elaborate on why most German cities can't support 2 Bundesliga clubs?
     
  5. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Support is always focussed on a single team. It's a German thing, probably - there doesn't seem to be any logical reason beyond that, Germans just seem to like to support the same club everyone else does. There are really only three cities that have two teams with a large fan support, and not a single one with three clubs, not even Berlin.
     
  6. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Berlin, Hamburg, and ???
     
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  7. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    #132 The Irish Rover, Jul 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
    Munich. There's 1860, obviously, and some would argue Unterhaching, who are 10 km away.

    Unterhaching don't draw when they're in the RL, but they have had fair-to-middling crowds on the few occasions when they've played in BL2 and BL1
     
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  8. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Yeah, Munich - the only city that had two teams in the Bundesliga at the same time on a at least somewhat regular basis (for 18 seasons). Hamburg had 8 seasons, Berlin 2. Bochum (3 seasons), Stuttgart (2 seasons) and Cologne (1 season) also had two teams in the Bundesliga at some point, but in those cities the gap between the first and second club is huge (although in Berlin, Union has never played in the Bundesliga so far - only Hertha and TeBe were in the Bundesliga at the same time, where there's also a large gap. But by now Union certainly counts as an established pro club).

    In the 2. Bundesliga, Unterhaching had attendances of 3k to 5k, about 10k in the Bundesliga. That's not bad for such a small town, but at best it's on the same level as FSV Frankfurt, Stuttgarter Kickers or Fortuna Cologne. Clubs that are too small to compete on the nationwide level on a regular basis, at least in the current era of pro football in Germany (which started in the late 1990s, with the tv rights boom). In Germany, only HSV/St. Pauli, Bayern/1860 and Hertha/Union are on an at least somewhat equal level (at least close enough that a rivalry can exist - when you have a club that has attendances 10 or 20 times higher than its nearest local rival that's usually not the case), comparable to cities in the UK, Italy or Spain that have two pro clubs.
     
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  9. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What are the 2 teams in Bochum? VfL and ?
     
  10. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    Wattenscheid 09
     
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  11. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    #136 The Irish Rover, Jul 11, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2017
    And the gap between the two illustrates your point. Bochum average 17k fans at home, while Wattenscheid averaged 2.7k last season, which was boosted by a few derbies; most home games draw in the 6-800 range.

    Run down the list of Germany's big cities and the pattern repeats itself; the big team draws major crowds of 35k or more and the small team(s) draw flies.

    You mentioned Stuttgart. The city proper has a population of 2.7 million and the metro has 5 million. The two biggest sides are VFB (50k average last season) and Stuttgart Kickers (3k average). In comparison, Birmingham & its surrounding West Midlands region also have a population of 2.7 million - and have Aston Villa, Birmingham, West Brom, Wolverhampton and Coventry. Apart from Coventry, they all draw 20k+ and Coventry could drawn in that region again if they get new owners who gave a damn.

    France is the same. No big second teams in any city, not even Paris or Marseilles. Mind you, in France - esp. the South - rugby is a very big deal, which would suck up much of the oxygen needed for a football team team to be a Derby competitor. That's not the case in Germany
     
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  12. Alex_K

    Alex_K Member+

    Mar 23, 2002
    Braunschweig, Germany
    Club:
    Eintracht Braunschweig
    Nat'l Team:
    Bhutan
    The city of Stuttgart has a bit over 600k inhabitants, 2.7 million would be agglomeration.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuttgart_Region
    Although there aren't any other pro teams there either way.
     
  13. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    My bad.

    The city has 630k; the Region/Urban Area is 2.7 million and the Metro Region is 5.3 million
     
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  14. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    It's amazing the information you guys have on this. It's settled, I'm following all of your posts from now ;)
     
  15. DC_Dave

    DC_Dave Member+

    DC United
    United States
    May 16, 2017
    Shawn Barry got his first start for Korona in Poland's top tier today - away from home, against Legia. Match ended 1 - 1
     
  16. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @bungadiri...

    Let's update title to:

    Shawn Barry at Korona Kielce
     
  17. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
  18. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
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  19. m vann

    m vann Moderator
    Staff Member

    Colorado Rapids, Celtic FC, & Louisville City
    Sep 10, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #144 m vann, Jul 31, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2017
    It should be noted that Barry's manager Gino Letttieri was also his manager for a short time (2nd half of last season) at FSV Frankfurt. Lettieri brought in one other from FSV, in Fabian Burdenski, and several others through his German connections. Nice that Barry has a previous association with his manager. That's a plus to have that in your favor.
     
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  20. Gorky

    Gorky Member+

    Jul 28, 2006
    NYC
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Until the manager gets fired :(
     
  21. m vann

    m vann Moderator
    Staff Member

    Colorado Rapids, Celtic FC, & Louisville City
    Sep 10, 2002
    Denver, CO
    Club:
    Celtic FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Managers don't get fired. Are you kidding me??? :) :D
     
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  22. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    "Only two things are certain in life: people die and football managers get the sack."
    Eoin Hand, Republic of Ireland Manager 1980-85.

    He was sacked 3 months later.
     
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  23. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Winoman repped this.
  24. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He gets the club Twitter machine all excited about what sounds like a goal line clearance:

    17 ': SHAWN BARRY! Will the famously secures colleagues in the confusion of podbramkowym and strikes the ball before the line #ARKKOR 0-0
     
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  25. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    VB, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @Alex_K most of the big intracity rivalries feature a sociological or cultural split of some sort. Catholic v. Protestant, working class vs. middle class, etc. I remember from history that Germany got religious peace when they let each jurisdiction take the faith of its leader. Back when the club system was forming, I'm guessing over 100 years ago, were most German cities almost all Catholic or almost all Protestant? Did Bismarck prevent or at least lessen working class vs. middle class splits?

    St. Pauli's fan base is famous for being very left. Is Hamburg politically on the right? Or are its fans just not interested in expressing political views through fussball?
     

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