SF Match 29: USA-ARG - CACERAS (PAR)

Discussion in 'Copa América 2016 - Refereeing' started by Lucky Wilbury, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. Lucky Wilbury

    Lucky Wilbury Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    United States
    Tuesday June 21, 2016 - 9:00 (ET) - Houston
    Referee: Enrique Caceres (PAR)

    Assistant Referee 1: Eduardo Cardozo (PAR)
    Assistant Referee 2: Milciades Saldivar (PAR)
    Fourth Official: Roddy Zambrano (ECU)
    Reserve AR: Luis Vera (ECU)

    This thread is for all pre-match, play-by-play and post-match discussion and analysis of the refereeing team. Per the forum guidelines (http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads/welcome-forum-guidelines.2032251/), this thread will be heavily moderated. For more general or partisan discussions of the match, please go to the general Group thread or the individual team forums.
     
  2. chaoslord08

    chaoslord08 Member

    Dec 24, 2006
    Fayetteville AR
    Club:
    West Bromwich Albion FC
    Country:
    United States
    Dempsey had his arm a bit high there...
     
    Doug the Ref repped this.
  3. Tigerpunk

    Tigerpunk Member

    Jun 17, 2004
    That needed to be at *least* yellow to Dempsey. It would have been a softish red, but not a wholly unjustified one.
     
    rh89 repped this.
  4. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    Not sure CR actually saw the elbow did he?
     
  5. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    I don't think he did. Turned to call the earlier foul.
     
  6. smitha96

    smitha96 Member

    Jul 11, 2010
    So we're lucky not to have two yellow cards now?
     
  7. smitha96

    smitha96 Member

    Jul 11, 2010
    This comment is in regards to the tackle, not the GK challenge
     
  8. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    Looked like deliberate contact by Guzan there.
     
  9. rh89

    rh89 Member

    Sep 29, 2015
    OR
    Agreed. Should have at least been yellow.
     
  10. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    GK take down at the end was interesting. Not sure it was card worthy, but Guzan better be on his best behavior the rest of the way (not that it matters at this point).
     
  11. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    3-0. Time for bed.
     
    chaoslord08 repped this.
  12. oxwof

    oxwof Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Ohio
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Welp, that's always been my fear with those advertising boards.
     
    Doug the Ref and msilverstein47 repped this.
  13. Tigerpunk

    Tigerpunk Member

    Jun 17, 2004
    '83 How was that not offsides? The only thing I can think of is that the AR thought it was played earlier than it was?
     
  14. bluedevils

    bluedevils Member

    Nov 17, 2002
    USA
    Lesson to be learned: Make sure you spot the ball in the right place when awarding free kicks near goal.

    This is something that the rest of the crew should help with. Referee often loses track of the exact location. ARs and 4th can provide vital information on stuff like this.

    Messi's brilliant free kick goal was taken about 5-6 yards closer to goal than where the foul occurred.

    It seemed that a couple American players tried to make that case, but the ref blew them off.
     

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  15. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Country:
    United States
    not really sure that I see the distance gained at 5-6 yards but I will agree it was not exactly at the spot of the actual foul.
     
  16. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member

    Mar 13, 2003
    NOVA
    Country:
    United States
    Carodozo was out of his element big time. There was one foul in the first half, and three in the second, all near mid-field, where his whistle was absurdly late (including Dempsy's second half elbow). It looked like he saw it, looked away (not even in the direction of play), and then came back and whistled it.
    The way he dealt with Guzan incident at the end of the first half was also really poor (and then ends the half right off of the kick. He either should have ended it right away, or then added a minute. As it was he fanned the flame by not even doing anything, then not adding time.
    Also, his free kick management was awful. The spot of the goal was off, and off badly. The free kick after that, he was warning the US player, but allowed a quick restart which almost made it 3-0.
    Basically, he made easy fouls at midfield into controversy, botched attacking free kicks, didn't use his AR's/4ths on throw-ins in front of the bench, and failed to manage the Guzan incident. All in all, pretty poor.
     
  17. oxwof

    oxwof Member

    Sep 6, 2014
    Ohio
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Those mowed stripes are 6 yards wide, right? It looks like 5.5 or 6 yards difference to me.
     
  18. chaoslord08

    chaoslord08 Member

    Dec 24, 2006
    Fayetteville AR
    Club:
    West Bromwich Albion FC
    Country:
    United States
    Cardozo is the AR. Caceres was in the middle.

    Also, with the Dempsey elbow, it looks like he was looking to play advantage from a previous incident, decided against it, and then blew for the original foul. Him looking away was him looking back for the original foul location.
     
    jarbitro repped this.
  19. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member

    Mar 13, 2003
    NOVA
    Country:
    United States
    My bad on the name.
    I think you are right on the advantage, but even that shows that his thinking was not at the level of this game. I mean, if you see that Dempsy elbow and your first thought is "well there goes that earlier advantage"...
    I'm not saying he cost the US the game (although that second goal was stinking ridiculously bad refereeing, it was also an absolutely remarkable free kick, and the US did nothing all game long to demonstrate they belonged on the field either). But Caceres seemed out of his depth, which was the impression I had also in the Mexico game he did as well.
     
    chaoslord08 repped this.
  20. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    A referee with any real courage would have sent Guzan off for that clothesline he pulled on Lavezzi. Absolutely ridiculous from Guzan. From watching this referee in two games he would never give a decision like that.

    An amateur game I think you have to give a red for that. Your game could go into the tank.

    Maybe in another game in this tournament you need to give it as well.

    Argentina players are too professional and composed and too good to turn the game into a street fight like some of the other teams in the tournament.
     
  21. Tigerpunk

    Tigerpunk Member

    Jun 17, 2004
    Not sure I agree about your last sentence. For one, I think the lack of a card was heavily influenced by the fact that Lavezzi had rolled around in agony on minimum contact 2 or 3 times already at that point.
     
  22. Ref Flunkie

    Ref Flunkie Member

    Oct 3, 2003
    New Hudson, MI
    I completely disagree with this. He reached out and attempted to grab the guy that kept going after the offside whistle. Not even close to VC in my opinion and debatable if it even amounted to USB. As Tiger said, the Argentine was selling it like he was shot, stabbed, and choked at the same time.
     
  23. AremRed

    AremRed Member+

    Sep 23, 2013
    I had this same play in a men's amateur game a couple Sunday's ago, except for a PK and yellow. Even with the yellow the keeper was arguing, can't imagine what he would've done if I had shown red. Just caution and move on.
     

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