Just some random curiosities, from 1984/85 to 1986/87 the Italian league boasted of having 3 of the best players of the decade at the same time: Maradona, Rummenigge amd Platini. So how did they fare in scoring, match appearances, individual ratings and team accomplishments ? 1984/85-1986/87 Goals and appearances Maradona 35 goals in 88 games 0.39 Platini 32 goals in 89 games 0.35 Rummenigge 29 goals in 64 games 0.45 Guerin Sportivo ratings Maradona 1984/85 7,00 Maradona 1985/86 6,57 Maradona 1986/87 6,48 Platini 1984/85 6,49 Platini 1985/86 6,49 Platini 1986/87 6,23 Rummenigge 1984/85 6,48 Rummenigge 1985/86 6,38 Rummenigge 1986/87 6,24 Team accomplishments Maradona Serie A champion 1986/87 Platini Serie A champion 1985/86 Rummenigge nothing
84/85 Platini 30 games, 18 goals (4 pk's) - 6th, top scorer (+ European Cup) Maradona 30, 14 (5) - 8th Rummmenigge 26, 8 (0) - 3rd 85/86 Rummenigge 24, 13 (1) - 6th Platini 30, 12 (2) - Champion Maradona 29, 11 (4) - 2nd 86/87 Maradona 29, 10 (3) - Champion (+ UEFA Cup) Platini - 29, 2 (0) - 2nd Rummenigge - 14, 3 (0) - 3rd Totals Maradona 88, 35 (12) Platini 89, 32 (6) Rummenigge 64, 24 (1) How many free-kicks then?
I'm thinking it might be interesting to look at their assists - I will see what I can do in that respect for the Serie A games (I think, although didn't check, Vegan's goal data is for Serie A alone too). Without typing too much of irrelevance to this thread, I'll just say Puck too that from my perspective it's ok to progress with your posts on the Dutch players thread (I've read the latest Bergkamp one and no need I think to give confirmation for example that I might be just as 'generous' as World Soccer readers lol, in my estimations, although actually not in effect because all the votes came from people putting him top 10 as I said which I wouldn't have been inclined to do at the time or retrospectively of course).
Yeah, I narrowed it down to Serie A where they competed in the same arenas against the same competition. Years ago I made an attempt and concluded that Platini had a higher amount of goal-assists than any of the others in 1986/87. However, the GS statistics of that season demonstrats that in their criteria Platini and Maradona were pretty even. Platini had 6, Maradona 12 and Rummenigge 1. Rummenigge undoubtedly the best scorer on average but was a forward.
Making a start on narrow assists (with goalscorers in brackets) for Platini 1984/85: Roma (h) 1 (Briaschi) Como (h) 1 (Bonini) Inter (h) 1 (Briaschi) So just 3 in total that season (obviously his 'worst' I'm sure already in terms of assists in Italian league seasons, but of course there are assists like vs Bordeaux in the European Cup, or pre-assists like vs Liverpool in the Super Cup - league pre-assists would total about a couple I think by the way (that's a minimum), plus one for a penalty he scored himself feasibly after Boniek was fouled following Platini's pass, while a couple of Briaschi goals are unclear but no particular reason to suspect a Platini assist).
Yeah, interesting how many assists Platini did have in 1986/87, but on the flip side were the shots (lots attempted with few goals) I suppose, looking at things statistically.
Platini scored 9 during that period of 1984-1987, Maradona 5 and Rummenigge 1. Rummenigge as forward scored 27 open goals, Maradona 18 and Platini 17.
As posted above (post #1128) Rummenigge has not 29 goals but 24 goals. Thus, his ratio is 0.37 (0.375 precisely) what makes him to rank behind Maradona and ahead of Platini in that regard.
Yes, mate, my mistake in my haste of a typo, thanks for correcting that. So it’s 22 open play goals from the German.
Rummenigge's 1984/85 assists: Lazio (a) 1 (Altobelli) Milan (a) 1 (Altobelli) Fiorentina (a) 1 (Morini) Udinese (a) 1 (Altobelli) Ascoli (h) 2 (Marini, Altobelli) So, that's 6 and if adding penalties won for fouls on him it'd take it to 9. I noticed 1 pre-assist too.
Impressive, it was after all his best rated season. But unfortunately injuries sidelined him for many games in comparison to Platini and Maradona, which in theory suggests that they were more durable than the German. Platini only missed 1 game in those 3 seasons and Maradona 2.
Yeah, his assists rate about matched his goals rate interestingly that season, but overall for goals (minus penalties) plus narrow assists (excluding penalties won) he has a rate of 0.54 compared to Platini's 0.57. I'll check for Maradona for that season now (although IIRC maybe you put all his assists on a YouTube video yourself even).
I noticed that the most durable foreign players in that timespan of 3 seasons of not missing games was Platini and Maradona. The 1986/87 season was virtually the downfall of all, in an injury-riddled season, but the Frenchman and Argentinian either played through fitness struggles or avoided injuries. It is a testament to their greatness in the contexts of the defensive Italian league of their time.
So for Maradona 1984/85: Ascoli (h) 1 (Penzo) *Arguably not included in narrowest definition as free-kick hit bar and dropped to Penzo Roma (h) 1 (Bertoni) Lazio (h) 1 (own goal) Milan (a) 1 (own goal) Atalanta (h) 1 (Bertoni) Cremonese (a) 1 (Bertoni) Roma (a) 1 (Bertoni) Fiorentina (h) 1 (Caffarelli) So that would be 8 including all those, and interestingly would give a rate of goals (minus penalties) plus assists which would equal Platini's of 0.57 (same number of 17 in 30 appearances too, but he scored an extra penalty although the G+A rate is overall more balanced towards assists than Platini's, and like Rummenigge's evenly spread between goals and assists when penalties are subtracted although a couple of the assists relate to free-kick shots).
Platini assists 1985/86: Pisa (h) 1 (Laudrup) Roma (h) 1 (Mauro) Verona (h) 1 (Serena) Torino (h) 1 (Laudrup) Bari (a) 1 (Briaschi) Inter (h) 1 (Bonini) Lecce (a) 1 (Mauro) So that is 7 this time, and more like 5 pre-assists too (minimum). But again the same 0.57 per game rate for narrow assists plus non-penalty goals (17 in 30 again). I'll continue with others tomorrow probably at some point.
Rummenigge's 1985/86 assists: Pisa (h) 1 (Bergomi) Atalanta (a) 1 (own goal) Torino (h) 1 (Bergomi) Lecce (h) 1 (Tardelli) Plus I've noticed I think a couple of pre-assists, and a penalty won. His narrow assists plus non-penalty goals per game rate is actually up to 0.67 for this season (when factoring in the own goal at least which was like one of Maradona's from 84/85 in being a free-kick shot), but with less assists and a couple less games played.
Maradona's 1985/86 assists: Atalanta (h) 1 (Renica) *If it got touched on or deflected it was minimal,and not sure it did, so I'm adding this one for his corner delivery Verona (h) 1 (Bagni) (Note:*Also fouled before a free-kick goal by Bertoni, but generally I've not been looking for those things and potentially have been missing mentioning penalties won by Maradona or even Platini in 84/85 even as opposed to Rummenigge, although not sure without going back to check) Torino (h) 1 (Caffarelli) Juventus (a) 1 (own goal) Bari (h) 1 (Renica) *Ok, I think the goalie touched it so maybe on narrowest definition it wouldn't count Sampdoria (h) 1 (Bagni) I've not verified the penalties and how they were won for this season either by the way, but wasn't adding any to Rummenigge's actual assist total anyway. So, if including all those 6 for Maradona (the own goal one is less impressive play than vs Lazio in 84/85 and seems less of an assist in some ways, but probably it should be counted the same; just like Rummenigge's penalty won this season is more impressive play than the previous season's and more a case of penalty won arguably) then the rate for his non-penalty goals+assists would be 0.45 per game this time. So that means that when the ratings and acclaim went decisively in Maradona's favour over the other two over the Serie A season (overall and peak period/games wise), the 'end product' was close numbers wise (quality/importance wise might not be the same arguably), and when the ratings/performances were deemed close the 'end product' was coming at a faster rate from the other two (without checking every penalty won and factoring that in) over these two seasons preceding WC86.
I had noticed one pre-assist at least too by Maradona, just to confirm. I might even have noticed two penalties won by Rummenigge this season now I think about it again, but anyway like I've said I've not been as thorough in checking out the penalties scored by Maradona and Platini in terms of how they all occurred.
Platini's 1986/87 assists: Ascoli (a) 2 (Briaschi, Bonetti) Inter (h) 1 (own goal) Empoli (h) 3 (Serena 2, Cabrini) Napoli (a) 1 (Serena) Roma (h) 1 (Serena) Brescia (h) 1 (Serena) So that's 9 narrow assists, plus one or two pre-assists (one time he back-heeled to Cabrini who played a one-two). But with just 2 goals it's only 0.38 per game for non-penalty goals + narrow assists.
Yes, pretty much in line with what I remembered. A good option is to also take into account that productivity and compare it to the amount of goals the team scored in the campaign.
Yeah, I suppose assists and pre-assists depend on passes being made use of (and goals depend on service normally too), plus keeping possession well, building momentum/confidence for the team with quality play etc don't necessarily show on the stats sheet (just to mention some other 'in possession' qualities) but the goals+assists as a percentage of the teams goals and assists can give an idea (though it's also possible that a player 'wastes' chances himself, or promising moves break down with his contribution or whatever eg if they don't make a pass to a team-mate when there is an opening). Looking at the assists adds something anyway I think, in terms of productivity like you say. It's to be recognised of course that that era in Serie A was not one in which teams and individuals would be getting insanely high stats though.
Yes, it was a defensive league and epoch. I’ve mentioned in another thread how someone like Elkjear never scored more than 9 goals in the Serie A while nowadays many foreigners crack that mark in the first 10-15 rounds. Times have changed but for the contexts of that time in the 1980s, scoring 10 goals or slightly more for a foreigner was a remarkable feat.
Rummenigge's 1986/87 assists: Como (a) 1 (Fanna) Atalanta (h) 1 (Fanna) Verona (a) 1 (Altobelli) I've noticed a couple of pre-assists, in the same game, including one where the goalie tipped his shot onto the post (I'm not considering that in with the narrow assists), and I didn't check every penalty but he did win one again at least. So only half a season really for him, but his rate for non-penalty goals plus narrow assists is 0.43, his worst of the 3 seasons (unlike for the other two players of course, these were his only 3 seasons in Serie A).