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Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by bsky22, Aug 2, 2019.
Minute ~ 13 for start of van der sar. Dest comments at 16
Off topic, but you're exactly right. Here are the average salaries for those five pro sports in the US in 2018-19:
Ouch! Looks like I've been spending my time posting on the wrong sports forum.
Wahl: Do you have any idea which way he's leaning?
Van der Sar: Nah. I think for the States, the advantage is they picked up his talent before -- at 16 or 17 he got an invitation to play for the national team in the US because he played in the [Ajax] first team, and the Dutch team is now knocking on his door. I think it is important for him to take a step back now to have a little rest because if you play so many games, the tension and everything...So, hopefully he makes the right decision. I spoke last week with him after the Valencia match and I think he's still undecided. From a commercial perspective, as a marketing director when I started, to unlock markets you need players, and America would be the destination for him. My football director Marc Overmars would rather that he choose for Holland. Less travel time and that kind of thing. But it's all up to him, and I think he has wise people around him -- a good agent and family. Hopefully, for you guys, you will see him more often. And for us, it doesn't really matter. It's whatever Sergino wants.
Thanks for transcribing KALM. This is one of the hardest dual national situations that I can remember. This is a kid that grew up in Holland and dreamed of playing for Orange. He didn't speak a ton of English until he was invited to play for the USYouth team. Now he is starting for AJAX and has made two caps for the USMNT. Therein lies the rub... if it were not for the U20 WC then Dest might not even be starting for AJAX.... so the USYouth gave him his chance and he made the most of it. As such, if he chooses Orange then I will sort of feel like he used the US and jumped ship when we needed him the most.... but it is hard to deny and blame him for the fact that his heart, family and career is in Holland. I watched Holland play last night and I found myself really rooting for Dumfries to do well. He is still quite young and I hope he makes it difficult for Dest to see any playing time.... because in the end, I am selfish and want Dest playing for us.
this shouldn't be real complicated. he has been with ajax since 2012. he doesn't owe us for ajax but nor does he owe holland a thing for getting where he is. to me he owes no one other than narrowly ajax, over there, for where he is now.
in turn, he has been with us since 2016. we have helped push his career along. ajax + usa has been the pairing for 3 years now. regardless where he was born or lives or works, this is what made sense to him as he was beginning.
i actually think a holland choice betrays a more mercenary mentality, one that is probably also ironically unlikely to stay with ajax long. you'd think that ajax + holland makes sense, but he doesn't radiate nationalism, does he?? to me holland would scream, "what's best for me," ie mercenary, and i'd expect him to move on to bigger leagues and money soon enough. i could see him switched to holland because they are perceived better and then out of the dutch league for the same reason. and part of ajax's mentality is grow em and sell em.
a craftsman needs to focus on working with the tools at hand and i find this all a lame distraction for a player who isn't really ready yet. there are players in europe who could help us. there are U20s who have a choice but haven't been this dismally indifferent. spend time on the people who give a darn. if he wants in the door is open, but the door to help this cycle is going to start closing.
fwiw i think no matter how crap a fed or coach we have, or what the results look like now, we are on a talent boom and within about 5 years will be good, no matter what internal forces do. making a decision based on today would be short termist.
also, in terms of recruitment tactics, having a set of a half dozen or so good players off that last u20, some of whom have dual national tugs on them, a wise strategy would be to get the less problematic ones consistently involved at the senior level and then have the ones already brought in lean on their friends from the team to follow suit. if you bring them into the senior team in a forward looking way then it becomes "stay with your friends." if you blow them off or send them off to u23 the "stay with your buds" approach loses its effect.
the atomized approach handles this like business, like a transaction. you have two choices. you have to do what is best for you. no. try "we're keeping the band together." keep rolling with the same group of guys. but to do that you have to start calling the other U20s in to set the bait. don't you want to keep hanging out with richards pomykal mendez ledezma soto etc.??
bears noting, and we seem to have forgotten such things, that one can use these months to secure players or experiment, before WCQ, and not everything has to be premised on trying to win with veterans every time. you could take as little as one game -- cuba would be perfect -- and lock in whole swathes of the U20s and U23s. mendez, ledezma, anyone we're not sure about.
i don't see how this is "hard" at all. he has been with ajax since 2012. he has been with us since 2016. you already made your choice, status quo.
at least one thing not discussed is to me it all feels a bit like an agent using leverage. people keep taking it at face value. i'm noting that this got him in senior camp early, and has raised his notoriety level in the US and Holland. this game playing couldn't possibly be an agent involved?
As you guys have no access to tv media, just this evening in the soccer show Veronica Inside the hype around Dest is moving the other way. Even the guy from De Telegraaf that I mentioned to be on a personal mission to get Dest in the Orange shirt changed his tune tonight. The people around the table were firmly convinced Dest falls short to be considered an Orange player.
The main source for the push for Dest towards Orange now has a different opinion and as such the biggest publicity push for Dest to Orange is gone (actually the only source as the rest were parrotting/warping what Valentijn Driessen wrote in De Telegraaf). If your biggest pusher suddenly drops you, one seriously has to ask yourself if the Orange team isnot a Fata Morgana, luring you into the desert to desicate.
Just prepare yourselves for Dest(iny) to the States.
By the way, the Young Orange team is obliterating every opponent nowadays, so no way they dare to break the chemistry of that squad.
EvS starts at about 12:10
He has bed hair.
Obviously the Orange is just trying to save face for when they lose Dest to the USA.
I this is another reason parents are reluctant for their kids to try to become a professional soccer player and forego college. ( Remember that this average is probably skewed by the much larger salaries designated players get so the average is much less for a new player.)
I don't get the arguement because you can always go back and complete your degree, but I think its an issue. Risk/reward and all that.
edit: quick google search got me this. "The minimum salary for the first 24 players on each roster rises from $48,500 last year to $60,000 this season, $62,500 in 2016, $65,000 in 2017, $67,500 in 2018 and $70,250 in 2019"
I think @feyenoordsoccerfan is really just confirming what he himself stated many moons ago. The Dutch cannot tell Dest what he needs to hear to make a switch attractive. Playing alongside VVD is attractive. Pulling VVD's luggage through the airport so Virgil can sign autographs is not attractive.
USA - potential (though of course not certain) stardom; immediate opportunity with full MNT
Netherlands - buy a lottery ticket, wait and hope (first for a chance at Jong Orange)
Dest - sensibly chooses the side that values him more, the program that recognizes he will contribute to team chemistry, not interfere with it
Now I'm curious
Well, if you guys can get and Dest and Kik Pierie and Sandler, you'll have a wall to stop the Mexicans and made the Dutch pay for it
He could decide to go Olympics route with USA, too. That doesn't cap-tie for FIFA I believe?
Hush, keep it under the carpet.
Ya, with a significant # of players making $48K, MLS was a glorified Semi-pro league.
I think it does. Anyone with the know how can confirm this?
The Olympics are a U23 competition, so should only be provisionally cap-tying.
Dest is already well-provisioned.
Actually, since there are two overage players allowed, it is not even a U23. It is a tournament with no real ID at all.
In fact I seem to remember that FIFA does not really sanction it and clubs are not required to release players for it.
In any case the Olympic soccer is about as close to meaningless as a tournament of its popularity can get.
In 2012, FIFA required clubs to release players for the Olympics. In 2016, they did not.
But FIFA also doesn't require release for its own U20 and U17 tournaments.
Since it's in the summer, the issue is usually about release of the over-23 players.
Is it me or has the US soccer community ( at least big soccer) softened our stance on which team dual nationals decide to play for.
I bring this up because compare the attitude in this thread compared to the Rossi hate that existed a few years back.
Some posters were even hoping him to fail and wash out.
( not complaining about the change in attitude just noticing it...)