Sergiño Dest

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by bsky22, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    My guess right now is that if the hex were to begin tomorrow, he would have a high probability of being a rotational player. By the time the hex rolls around, if he continues to improve, he should have at least a decent chance to be a regular starter in the Hex. I doubt that would translate to potentially being a regular starter for Netherlands.

    I belileve his defensive weaknesses were exposed against two very good teams but I don't think they would be so apparent against the rest of CONCACAF. On the other hand, I believe he has all of the offensive tools right now to play the type of soccer that Berhalter wants the team to play (from either the right or the left side). Not too many players for whom that can be said.

    Robinson would probably be his closest competitor. If he can't beat out Robinson, he will have trouble beating out a Left or Right back for Netherlands (that is not being disrespectful to Robinson....the Netherlands are a bit deeper than us at every positon...right?)

    If I am right, the question becomes, would it be better to play for Netherlands as a rotational player or USMNT as a potential starter (he has time to improve). My guess is that you might say it would still be better to choose the Netherlands? Am I right?
     
  2. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    He is youth cap tied to the US. Can't do anything with NL until he switches.
     
  3. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Maybe ask the manager who replaces Egg.;)
     
  4. SamsArmySam

    SamsArmySam Member+

    Apr 13, 2001
    Minneapolis, MN
    ...was a bright spot for me in the last two friendlies. Loved his attacking play, brought high quality technical ability and a desire to test the opposing D. Probably the highlight of the two games for me.

    Young player, defensive mistakes... Those can be corrected. He has a very high ceiling.

    Hopefully he's getting lots of positive reinforcement from the coaching staff because I'd love for him to stick around.
     
  5. According to the "Telegraaf" Dest is a lost case for the Orange team
    https://www.telegraaf.nl/video/3645...r-oranje?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic

    In the video the Telegraaf chief editor of football Driessen (the suit man) tells ten Hag personally called Koeman that Dest could be a potential Orange player and because of the looming capping matches it's urgent to take action. Driessen then says the KNVB/Koeman let vd Looi contact him. Dest would expect Koeman to call. So Dest according to Driessen will be loyal to the USMNT.
    Video is in Dutch (of course) so most likely only relevant to Freisland.

    First of all. It's typical Ajax junk (Telegraaf is the Ajax related news paper).
    Dest is a nobody and at this point has shown nothing, so to state that Dest expects Koeman to be on the phone for all mighty Dest is a bit....
    Let's be clear, it's not Dest who says those things, most probably just sucked up the thumb of that Driessen...(I hope not from a personal contact from Driessen and Dest). The attitude that the iconic Orange member Koeman should be so humble to beg Dest to wear the iconic Orange shirt is just Ajax self overestimation arrogance.
    With a majority of (ex) Eredivisie Feyenoord players we were one penalty kick away from the 2014 WC Final.
    With an Ajax coach and Ajax players we failed to reach the 2016 and 2018 tournements. So to project an arrogance about a Youth player just sniffing the smells of the real world dressing room towards icons is just disgusting.
    But if it's true that Dest expects icons to kiss his ass to lure him my simple answer is to kick the point of the boot up his arse.
    He then clearly doesnot know his place and doesnot fit in the Orange dressing room, Young Orange or the big team.
     
  6. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    ^^ Another anti-Dest rant ...

    It is starting to sound personal.
     
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  7. No, I take on the Ajax media trying to push their agenda.
    As I stated it's most likely sucked up by that editor who tries to pressure the KNVB by stating that Dest is going for the USA.....if....
    My guess is that the only one Dest pays attention to is ten Hag, who believed in him while he was on the brink of being cut lose.
    It was ten Hag who told the Ajax board this summer not to send Dest on holydays as he wanted him in the preps for the new season with the CL qualies and Eredivisie looming.

    https://www.parool.nl/sport/sergino-dest-18-speelt-zich-in-de-kijker-bij-ajax~b548dc68/

    Stuur hem nog maar even niet op vakantie. Dit zou zomaar eens het jaar van Sergino Dest kunnen worden. Met die interne boodschap bij Ajax maakte hoofdtrainer Erik ten Hag duidelijk dat hij het ziet zitten in de snelle vleugelverdediger. Drie maanden later is Dest zijn eerste keus als rechtsback.

    Don't send him on vacation. This could just be the year of Sergino Dest. With that internal message at Ajax, head coach Erik ten Hag made it clear that he clearly is charmed by the fast wing defender. Three months later, Dest is his first choice as a right back
    .

    So my guess is that the whole "Koeman didnot call so I choose the States" is fake news in the game to manipulate Dest into the Orange shirt.

    The fact those media goes this path of making up things should be encouraging to you as it indicates Dest isnot on Koeman's radar and thus increases your chances to land him as a US national team player.

    By the way, where do I post things that arenot true in the quoted post?
     
  8. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    Your post was primarily an anti-Ajax post, which isn't entirely appropriate here, either, but ...

    ... but there's plenty of anti-Dest opinion there.
     
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  9. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    You bolded the wrong part!

     
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  10. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Dutch have a much deeper pool of players that are closer to prime age than the US right now (always?) so I can see why they wait until a player proves themselves at a high level. Our team is in more of a speculative mode where we may have to take high flyers on players with an immense ceiling that haven't proven much yet. They may have other players in the neighborhood that are already doing it while we can't afford not to rush anyone with a pulse at the moment. I think in four years once a lot of our talent grows up we will be very much more in line with their approach with Dest right now.
     
  11. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #287 Lloyd Heilbrunn, Sep 14, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2019
    Is it mathematically possible for us to flameout badly enough that we miss the Hex, under the new qualification standard?

    If it is, then there are games that matter before the Hex.

    If it is mathematically impossible, then you are correct, except for the cap tying aspects of the Nations League.
     
  12. No, those arenot opinons, but facts.
    Just remember when I started posting facts fans of Erik Palmer-Brown didnot like they came down on me. Especially the hyping around his signing for ManCity and "interest"from Dutch top clubs I exposed. In the end I turned out to be the one who was right.
    I'm not anti Dest. When something favourable can be mentioned I do it. Because all I care about are facts.
    I posted about him while he played in the Young team last season his ratings by Voetbal International. He wasnot exceptional.
    So when I read posts from YA followers that the Orange team backs are shit and less than Dest my response is that compared to them he's a nobody....because we have no facts about him at top level compared to guys who played seasons in CL and EL besides their club team matches and Orange national matches.
    Face it. Put all those resumees back to back with the one Dest can provide and still challenge the fact Dest is compared to them a nobody.
    Does that mean he stays behind them? Of course not. It's a snapshot of the presence.
    I have doubts about him from his Young Ajax season. That's an opinion.
    However, given that ten Hag has a positive opinion on him, I value ten Hag very high, I give him the benefit of the doubt to be wrong about him in the future.
    However the present is as it is and that is he hasnot a jota to point at as an achievement.
     
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  13. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    @feyenoordsoccerfan has some deep emotional issues due to the cognitive dissonance of believing a team is top 3, but having to locate them in the middle of the table every week...

    But he's not all that wrong about Dest and the Oranje (and even possibly Ajax's hand in things.) I've posted all this before on one Dest thread or another, so I'll try not to go into too much detail, but it's just not that common for the Dutch to sideline a half dozen youth prospects with dozens of U-caps, not to mention the 4 or 5 or more Sr. FBs who would be in front of Dest, to do some kind of rush-cap simply to keep the kid from playing for the US. The effect on moral of current players, Dest, if he doesn't become a Sr. regular, and even coaches and paper-pushers would be pretty heavy. It's not impossible, but it would pretty extraordinary and I'd be surprised, actually shocked, if anything real happened this early in the kid's career. Might he get a call from someone in the U set-up to gauge his thinking? Sure. That would be normal as an Ajax first teamer at 19. Would he get a call from the Sr. team even, just to say "we've been impressed with your play" or something? Also very possible, though less likely. Would the Sr. team make any kind of offer of call-ups or anything? Can't imagine, but who knows.

    But even contact from the U's puts Dest in a tricky position. He's 19. Plays in Amsterdam. Trains day-in day-out with Oranje starters and rotation players... Even the hint that he might have a chance makes accepting the "done deal" cap from the US very difficult. I think he finds excuses to put off a meaningful US cap until the spring. If he's still starting at Ajax, improving as he goes, and Ajax is still top of the table or to 2-3, it becomes harder for the Oranje to ignore him.

    But till then, it will be a game of chicken with the US call-ups, unless his folks can work a deal with the US to not dangle a locking sr. cap until he has a bit more time to think about it.
     
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  14. Ziyech at Ajax a couple of years ago thought it took too long for the Orange squad to call him up. So he swiched to Morocco. It was a loss for the Orange team as he's really good and had qualities we not much later in the midfield needed. Now, after chosing a far lesser team and seeing where he could have been playing and in the last two matches being booed by the Morocco fans, my guess is he now thinks he made the wrong decision to be impatient.

    Now look at the Orange team. It was by everybody deemed a great loss for the Orange team and one we needed really badly.
    A couple of years later nobody is talking anymore about that loss, simply because we filled it with superb players that came up.

    So the moral of this story to Dest is that nobody is bigger than the Orange shirt and thinking to drop the Orange chances out of impatience is a foolish thing to do.
     
  15. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    We don't have any young yanks at Feyenoord, so they can sink into the ocean for all we care :)

    THis seems to be the most likely and intelligent scenario for Dest. No need to make the decision right now. Decline the League of Nations callups and see how the season at Ajax is going. Then revisit it in the spring when the US needs to start preparations for WCQing in earnest.

    These are very hard decisions we ask teenagers to make. No matter which way he chooses, he's going to feel like he's letting people down. THe US has invested in him thru the U17, U20, and now USMNT Levels. But his formative training and development have all been in Holland (plus family, friends, etc.).

    As a USYNT watcher/stalker, we actually hoped this day would come. If he was developing and improving like we wanted him to at Ajax, then of course Holland would start being interested.
     
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  16. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Well, really, the secret plan was for him to explode on the scene after the winter break, when he was already locked in for the US. It's Mazaoui's fault for getting hurt and kinda not being great since signing his extension! Da nerve.

    But seriously, had Dest spent the fall with Jong Ajax and gotten his Sr. chances in January this would all be moot. My guess is he eventually ends up with the US anyway, but there will be some drama in the meantime that will piss off the "don't play foreign raised duals" crowd as he stalls until he gets a better sense of what his Oranje prospects really are. I still think the Dutch national team scenario is too fraught with ?? for the near future. If he's interested in a relatively short-odds international career he will end up with the US.
     
  17. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    We do have to understand that's he's a question mark for the US too.
    I mean, he's played 6 career first team soccer games.
    That does put him at the top of the US left back pool for the time being, though
    Until Chris Gloster emerges from PSV :)

    So we'll have our own PSV versus Ajax battle. Two of them actually. Mendez versus Ledesma in midfield. Come on Feyenoord! Asleep at the wheel...……….

    The "don't play foreign raised duals" crowd in the US usually don't mind if the player has been with us all along like Dest has. He's been heavily involved in our youth programs. Those folks are a vocal minority anyway.
     
  18. freisland

    freisland Member+

    Jan 31, 2001
    Sure. He's young and could easily flatline or regress and/or be eclipsed by up-and-comers or even vets, but there's not question his path to a significant US career is way shorter (and more likely to be stable) than for the Oranje. The Dutch just tend to circulate more players and are under more pressure to win. In general, the US maintains a smaller "A-Team" pool.
     
  19. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IF the coaches think that Dest is one of the best 23 then they should call him up for the Nations League matches next month. If they don't then they shouldn't. But I am not buying in to any nonsense about not calling him into cap tying matches to give him time to think about his future.

    Call him in. If he declines then you deal with it however you see fit.
     
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  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Oh...…………..there's no question that the US staff will try to call him up to the League of Nations. I imagine they've already talked to Dest about it.

    But Dest's own comments over the last week indicate he's not ready right now to commit. I mean, our League of Nations game is October 11th. So Berhalter will need to have his roster set within weeks. I don't know how Dest can be there with what he's currently saying...…………………………………

    So we'll probably need to go with Ream or Lovitz or somebody of that ilk. Which will be fine against Cuba. Not sure about Canada...……………...
     
  21. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Probably right. But the staff should call him in if they think he's in the top 23. If Dest declines then that's fine. But it should be on Dest to decline and not the US staff trying to be too nice to him. Here's the conversation I don't like to happen.

    US - Gee Sergino we'd like to call you in to the Nations League matches. We like what we saw in our last two friendlies and think you are part of the team moving forward.

    Dest - Gee coach I am not ready to commit yet. I have a tough decision ahead of me.

    US - We understand that.

    Dest - I would prefer you not call me in so I have some more time to see how this plays out.

    US- Sure ok we won't call you in.

    Call him in. If he declines then ok its out there and on him. That doesn't mean the door has to be closed for the future. Not at all.
     
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  22. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    I cant think of a positive interpretation of your proposal.

    It's headed straight for Couva.

    We want players who want to be on the team. Dest is too young to know exactly what he wants. He needs time. The conversation should be:

    Berhalter: Dest, you are very young, you need to take time to make a decision you can feel good about after talking it out in the community you expect to be a part of for the rest of your life. Let us know when you decide. In the meantime we can put you on the Olympic track. Call me. Click.
     
  23. Given Ajax schedule he's not being released anyway:

    Zo 6 okt
    Eredivisie
    Za 19 okt
    Eredivisie
    Wo 23 okt
    UEFA Champions League
    Zo 27 okt
    Eredivisie
    Ajax
    16:45
    -
    Feyenoord
    -
     
  24. bsky22

    bsky22 Member+

    Dec 8, 2003
    Great plan! This will give MLS fans a replacement for Chandler. They can complain for the next 10 to 15 years that Dest isnt committed and call for Lovitz level players.
     

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