Sergiño Dest

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by bsky22, Aug 2, 2019.

  1. USSoccerNova

    USSoccerNova Member+

    Sep 28, 2005
    I have a long-standing bet with an English friend of mine over which of our respective national teams will be the first to win a post-2000 World Cup. The stakes are a car of the loser's choosing.

    While it's mainly for fun and I'm certainly not getting proper odds for my risk, my high-level investment thesis on that bet is as follows:

    1) Traditional quality soccer programs, like England, the Netherlands and Mexico, are mature soccer markets/cultures and thus are generally not going to improve significantly relative to their competition. They haven't gotten over the hump yet/recently and they are unlikely to in the short term. (I am certainly taking some near-term risk though as the USA's odds are even lower here.)

    2) That the US is in a nascent stage in its soccer development, that resources have been starting to pour in at an ever-increasing rate, and that the US has the size, finances and track record of dominating markets that it takes even somewhat seriously. Demographic shifts domestically are helping in this respect as well.

    Let's just say that while I greatly respect the Dutch and their soccer success, I feel similarly about them as I do about England in the long-term. Among other things, we should be pitching Dest on our recent youth results, how they are consistent with what should be happening and that it bodes well for the team's prospects over his national team career. Put simply, we're a program on the rise (and one whose prospects are better than the prevailing perception) and there's plenty of evidence to back that up.
     
  2. National team soccer isnot the same as club soccer and isnot a reflection of league quality.
     
  3. onefineesq

    onefineesq Member+

    Sep 16, 2003
    Laurel, MD
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ohhhhhhhh, you don't know what you just stepped in!
     
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  4. TOAzer

    TOAzer Member+

    The Man With No Club
    May 29, 2016
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Naif! :eek:........
     
  5. btlove

    btlove Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    United States
    Sep 29, 2017
    Sergiño Dest is 18. He has less than 10 appearances on the USMNT and Ajax combined. It’s not ultimatum time sorry.
    “Congratulations on the start of your career! Commit to us or you’re done.” Seems fairly ridiculous at this stage. Nagbe is different. He has nowhere else to go
     
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  6. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I will ask this one last time and see if someone has a straight finite answer. I get he's 18. I get he doesn't have to make a decision this next month. I get the US can sit around and wait for him to do so.

    But just when do you fish or cut bait? Are you going to continue to call him into friendlies so he isn't cap tied? Are you going to continue to invite him to cap tying camps if he passes? Just how long do you play this game if you are the US? Till he's 20? 22? 25?

    Don't respond with the 'until somebody better comes along". Thats a non answer. You can't possibly know if someone is better until you give them the same level of training and coaching.
     
  7. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States

    I stop calling him as soon as I think he can't help me, no sooner. If Rossi had been available, I would have put him on the plane in 2010.
     
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  8. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Much of this depends on his decision with Netherlands. If he hasn't committed to US or Netherlands that means :
    a) Netherlands has asked and he declined.
    b) Netherlands has not asked.

    If a) is the case that means he has not been able to decide on either country and it doesn't indicate a lack of desire to play for us. It indicates that he would like to play for both countries and is having difficulty choosing. I would be very patient if that is the case.

    If b) is the case it may indicate that he is waiting and hoping that Netherlands will ask. If he is 20, that will mean that he has passed on playing for us in a WC (assuming of course that we qualified). I would take that as a pretty strong indication that we are pretty far down his list and move on.

    so, to answer your question...I would give him to 8ish months before the world cup but at that point, I reserve the option to change my mind because there could be chemistry issues if he skips qualification and then just steps in to a starting spot (or even a spot in the 23)
     
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  9. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    Real quick, I would like to comment on Dest:
    Everyone has been commenting on his quality on offense but he has also been getting lots of criticism for his defensive quality (lack of).

    I'm of the opinion that improving dramatically on the defensive side is far more likely at his age than improving skills on the ball. He has the physical tool that is especially important (speed), he will grow in strength and learn to better use his body and much of the rest is mental. Add in that he was playing on the left side. I don't know how often he has played on the left but the footwork is a bit different and being on a different area of the field forces you to think a bit more rather than to just react. The two big defensive errors in the last two games were partly footwork errors. He might have made both mistakes on the right also but perhaps not.

    It is impossible to say for sure but I think he has a very strong future. i also believe that 6 months to a year can make a huge difference based upon experience. It would be more difficult in many ways if he were a defense first player trying to improve his offense.

    Right now, he is probably our best left back for the weaker teams and in 6-12 months or so perhaps he will be unanimous choice for LB?

    I guess that wasn't as quick as I had hoped :(
     
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  10. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    He will not be at lb. He will be at rb replacing Cannon. There was no point effecting that change when he has not committed to USA. That is why he played left back.
     
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  11. Lloyd Heilbrunn

    Lloyd Heilbrunn Member+

    Feb 11, 2002
    Jupiter, Fl.
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Considering England looks better now than their team that made the World Cup semi's in Russia, you might need to start laying some money aside...
     
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  12. What did I do...What did I do....o_O
     
  13. 50/50 Ball

    50/50 Ball Member+

    Sep 6, 2006
    USA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Judging from history, being a semi-finalist doesn't have much predictive value.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FIFA_World_Cup
     
  14. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    I'd also explore Dest as a wing player.
     
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  15. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    I'd give Dest the keys to the car. Heck, I'd give him the car. :thumbsup:
     
  16. ifsteve

    ifsteve Member

    Manchester United
    United States
    Jul 7, 2013
    MS and ID
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
     
  17. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    What I'd say is there is no timeline for when you "fish or cut bait."
    In fact, there will never be a "cut bait" until he makes a decision one way or the other. At least if the USMNT staff thinks he's a potential "difference maker."

    Right now we should not be putting all of our eggs in the Dest basket anyway.
    We are in "expanding the net" mode right now, and a bunch of different left backs should be looked at. Dest got this camp. Maybe it'll be Hollingshead or somebody else for the next camp. Antonee Robinson. Chris Gloster. Yada, yada, yada.

    When we really need to make a decision one way or the other is when WCQing preparations get serious. We still have some till until then.
     
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  18. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    I think Dest may push all-in with us next month.
     
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  19. NietzscheIsDead

    United States
    May 31, 2019
    Agreed.

    I'd also like to see Hollingshead get a shot. I think that his effect at LB would be similar to Ream, except that Ryan pushes up the field much higher. He's not fast, but he's really smart and "tries sh*t".
     
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  20. Cynical US fan

    Iceland
    Mar 30, 2017
    Boston
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Read Dest's history in Wikipedia. His father is a dual citizen, Surinam-US. His mother Dutch. He's played for the US youths but has played as much in Holland.
    If this kid is as good as Ajax thinks he is, he'll eventually play for Holland. He has plenty of time to wait for their call.
     
  21. TimB4Last

    TimB4Last Member+

    May 5, 2006
    Dystopia
    In theory, Dest has time, but in practice he doesn't. In theory he could wait years for the Dutch call, which might never come. I'd draw you a diagram if I could, but delaying a choice is not a 'no-cost' option in my view.

    I don't play poker, but I think the Dutch are out of position on this hand. Dest can only switch once, he can't go back-and-forth, and it will be a long time (per our resident analysts) before Dest can even realistically dream of playing for the Netherlands.

    Dest can play for us right now, and likely for multiple cycles. It would take a pretty staunch, Rossi-like worldview, to hold out indefinitely for iconic, when he can have his fill of ironic immediately.
     
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  22. DHC1

    DHC1 Member+

    Jun 3, 2002
    NYC
    It's a good question: I'd focus on the first game that matters: the start of the Hex. He can play his option out (as Finance 101 informs: never exercise an option early) but that's the point where we need him to commit. It probably works for him as well because he'll see if he can actually get time for the Netherlands in the runup to Qatar or will have to wait for 2026.

    Our job in the next year is to show him that it's a great experience to play for the USMNT and that he'd be an excellent piece of our puzzle. It would be helpful if very few of his teammates were well below Ajax potential, which pretty much excludes all of the MLS/B2/Championship guys who have played for the USMNT this year except for
    • Pomykal
    • Morris (played great vs. Uruguay!)
    • Cannon
    • Holmes
    • Miazga
    • Lima
    • Arriola
    • Zimmerman
    • Lletget
    • Robinson (either)
    • Long (game has declined since last year)
    • Boyd (ugly games)
    • Zardes (ducking)
     
  23. Mahtzo1

    Mahtzo1 Member+

    Jan 15, 2007
    So Cal
    #248 Mahtzo1, Sep 12, 2019 at 12:39 PM
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 12:52 PM
    Like many that have grown up in the Dutch system, he is extremely versatile. That, I believe, is one of their hallmarks.

    I don't know if it is still true but I know in the past they didn't believe in specializing (position) until the players reached a relatively old age (I want to say 14-15ish but reallyl don't know). That leads to versatility and high quality ball skills for everyone. It also may lead to some of the defenders being a bit behind defensively compared to some of their international counterparts...but that is a quality that is more easily picked up at a later age. One advantage that defenders have being raised in that system is that they will have a far better intuitive understanding of the game and the offensive player....knowing what makes things easier or more difficult for an offensive player for instance.

    By the way, the converse is also true. being an offensive player that has played defense can help the player because he has a better understanding of how to disrupt an offense...especiall (IMO) through movement. Instead of just knowing that diagonal movement (for example) can disrupt a defensive shape and create gaps and or overloads through film or lecture or even experience, the player can understand by experiencing it first hand from the defenders point of view. The list of advantages is endless.
     
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  24. dams

    dams Member

    United States
    Dec 22, 2018
    #249 dams, Sep 12, 2019 at 1:12 PM
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2019 at 1:38 PM
    Seems to me that at this point in his career he would be best served to play as an outside mid in a 4 3 3 or maybe a wingback in a system with a rock solid 3 man back line. Needs to be a system where he is not asked to defend dynamic wingers one v one in space in our final third. Right now, I can't imagine starting him at a fullback position in a must win game against a quality opponent. Here is the thing about Dest though. I've been a fan of his for quite a while now and some of this may be conformation bias, but I don't see anyone else in our entire pool that is as good on the ball as him except for Pulisic. He just looks different than the other guys out there with the ball. Smoother, more polished, better at movement and understanding the space around him. He seems like he has a knack for knowing when to push the ball up field and where to go with it. In the U20 WC, more than a few dangerous attacks seemed to start innocuously at his feet. I kinda like him inverted on the left, pinching in and combining with Pulisic...as long as he doesn't need to defend on an island in our final third. If he stays with us, I'd move him around and experiment. He doesn't strike me as having a classic wingers mentality but try him there. I'm only half joking that I'd try him as a linking or creative central midfielder. The real elephant in the room with this team now is the spine in the middle of the field. Put a healthy Adams at the 6 where he belongs and get some dynamic and at creative mids (at least one) in front of him and everything else will fall into place.
     
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  25. striker

    striker Member

    Aug 4, 1999
    What do you think would happen if Dest turns us down now, without making a big (negative) fuzz about it? He waits for a Dutch call up that never comes. Five years from now, he becomes a better player. He calls the USMNT management and tells them that he is ready to play for our team again. Do you think we will turn him down?
     

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