September USMNT Roster

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by SamsArmySam, Aug 28, 2019.

  1. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    I don't know why people don't think Bradley and Altidore wanted to stay with Toronto.

    It's a friendly, they've played the Gold Cup and have Nations League and I can't imagine either would be happy if they missed the playoffs by a point or two.
     
  2. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    cry baby. do your job. this is part of your job. how many more basic lessons about coaching our NT is he learning on the job in exchange for the paycheck?

    this is an international date. this is not playoff time. i know he wants to treat the "build up" like the playoffs but it isn't. even when LoN starts the games will count but some may want to beg out for playoffs. it's your choice.
     
  3. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    yedlin has been beaten twice back door in two years for ties that were wins. does anyone care? he does not offset this with many assists, despite the pretense he is great going forward. i am convinced the main reasoning on him and the even worse brooks is pure club snobbery. a player on these teams in theory should be more than they are. once reality sets in that shouldn't matter. who they fool into a paycheck shouldn't cover up field performance.
     
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  4. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    you cannot "outweigh" the roster filler that he will feel compelled to bring in off the bench. when we needed a goal against mexico he subbed in roldan as a forward and then lovitz. in a quick turnaround they will likely start or at least see significant time one or more games. please don't pretend this is inconsequential.
     
  5. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #155 juvechelsea, Aug 29, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
    when the dynamo were a good team these call-ins were routine. you roster accordingly. it's a known trade off for signing internationals. we have to cope with the Hondurans leaving for stretches. berhalter needs to get he is the senior team coach and not their MLS buddy anymore.

    to be real, i have more of an issue with the MLS scrubs on the list than leaving people off for a friendly. i see that as where the real damage is taking place. but i also expect some of the same crap when the games do count next month. at a point -- still calling nagbe -- you just sound like a pushover.

    the angle that canadian teams might be less compelled to let their players go is an interesting argument. but that's what the FIFA rule is for. you ask nicely. if they say no, you pull rank.

    in historical terms i would have been ok with literally leaving off playoff players. not "it's getting close," but "we have a playoff game that week." with the introduction of LoN that just got complicated. in contrast these are regular season games, but the friendlies won't count. so it's harmless to leave them off but also wasn't that harmful to call them up either. i am not some pro/rel/international sched fanatic euromimic but i do think at a point you can say it's your league's fault for scheduling into a time period when i legally can demand these players, and with the new LoN situation perhaps should demand them for at least the first pair of fixtures.
     
  6. mannycoon

    mannycoon Member

    May 13, 2009
    You can though. If Dest establishes himself as option at LB, he will be less compelled to use Lovitz like that going forward; I also specifically mentioned left back being one of the areas I was disappointed. If Morales or Pomykal establish themselves Trapp and Bradley hopefully become utilized less going forward.

    In general as more actually good players establish themselves, there will be less room available for bottom of the roster dreck in games that mean something and this roster includes several new players that should be able prove themselves.

    And it is kind of inconsequential because they are friendlies.
     
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  7. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Sure. Earlier this year FCD basically allowed their entire midfield to leave at almost the same time (Pomykal, Servania, Cerrillo to the U20 World Cup; Aranguiz to the Toulon tournament, Bryan Acosta to the Gold Cup, Carlos Grueso to Copa America.). Not quite the same time, but close.

    Clubs don't have to release players to youth events. So FCD could have told 1 or 2 of the U20 trio that they could go to the World Cup. But they didn't. Luchi said the club believe in the importance of international opportunities. Their midfield was running on fumes. FCD could easily miss the playoffs by 1 or 2 points, leaving us fans to wonder whether we could have made the playoffs if we'd have Pomykal for that month.

    Honestly, though..........................the U20 WC is a real competition.
    We're talking about USMNT friendlies here. If clubs ask to retain players from friendlies, I really don't have a problem with it. And I imagine that the TFC brass talked to Bradley/Altidore, and everybody there is on the same page.
     
  8. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #158 juvechelsea, Aug 29, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
    dest can't consistently stop U20s. on performance he hasn't earned this. i am open to a cap tie game to secure his services but that would be october to be legally effective i understand.

    morales has been previously capped and did squat. i wouldn't mind indulging this one to give his followers their chance since he's a few years older. the same once a cycle shot marginals like nguyen got over their careers. but you have to do something with it. and to me there is a list of people in the midfield more impactful who deserved this. and with literally half the midfield being trash some will see playing time no matter how much you try and spin and compartmentalize. it is the most subbed position. they will start. they will play.

    sorry but there are very few of his camp cupcake people he has actually given up on. he is glacial to correct to reality. hence trapp, roldan, lovitz, etc. i am befuddled because historically one has to play WELL to stick around. not just show up and make no impresion or suck. traditionally if you were this unimpressive you disappeared for years.

    this is the only schedule we get to play. i get this pair doesn't count. most of them don't. but we only get to meet a few times a year and this wastes a lot of one of those meetings. and if you waste the friendlies how do you think the real ones go?

    at least one thing i find gross is an argument that the games don't count that sounds like it is excusing poor performance. i have heard that one made for yedlin and brooks. i don't want to be depending in games that count on people who can't hack it in a friendly, on the lame argument that the sucky friendly didn't count as a real game. for our purposes, it's as close as we can get.
     
  9. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    trapp doesn't need to teach anyone anything.
     
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  10. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    you mean scores on saint vincent and other caribbean islands? except we scheduled mexico he got shut out by, and uruguay. oops.
     
  11. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    amen. if anything we seem to regress.
     
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  12. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    you are vastly overrating about a half dozen players at the back end of this roster with this attempt at a gotcha game. the bar would only be difficult to make if we did limbo. if it was hurdles you would worry about tripping your feet on it, the few inches off the ground it would be.
     
  13. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #163 juvechelsea, Aug 29, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
    he is still not even close. usually the moaning is a couple guys and not like 6-10. and i don't mean inconsistent players who have shown promise. i mean people who fairly consistently are anonymous or trash. the traditional response to that has been call other people because we are looking for impact and standout work. if you did what this bunch did usually you would disappear until the next cycle or maybe 2 camp cupcakes from now.

    we have a pile of young talent sitting watching this. if you make no impression, their turn. QED. this is a riskless friendly week.

    i mean, bradley had "bornstein," not a whole list of inexplicable favorites. and to be fair, bornstein had a single huge goal and played in world cup and confed cup gams. what blows my mind is this favorites list literally does next to nothing memorable or impressive. if anything, say, trapp, i can diagram for you him giving up about 3 goals. the most recent being him getting faked out of his jock before the Jamaica friendly winner.
     
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  14. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    neither can defend enough for me, both are a waste of time if you believe in leakproof defense -- like what got us through GC allowing 2 goals all tournament. you do that and you will qualify and be competitive in most tournaments no matter how bad he messes up the attacking selections.

    you could make a distinction that robinson can hit a cross. but his last few callups that hasn't manifested. surely you can see the issues in going with a defender who can't defend -- on the theory he can hit a cross -- and whose going forward powers then irregularly show up.

    i was curious what he would look like in a more advanced position where we wanted offense, ie crossing. but i think we tried that and he didn't do much with it.
     
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  15. gogorath

    gogorath Member+

    None
    United States
    May 12, 2019
    He absolutely shut down and frustrated Diego Lainez.

    He got beat once in the U20 World Cup and maybe looked shaky one or two more times.

    He's aggressive offensively, but he's not a bad defender. There's a huge difference between the two.
     
  16. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Club:
    Colón de Santa Fe
    Yeah, it is a friendly... of course TFC is giving the 3G the finger. Chelsea and Shalke should have protected their players and followed suit
     
  17. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Chelsea and Schalke don't have games scheduled during the window.
    TFC do, and they're hanging onto the playoffs by a fingernail.

    I can't believe we're having this debate. I thought 95% of USMNT fans didn't want Bradley and Altidore called up.
     
  18. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    Tulsa
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    I'll reiterate that I'm pleasantly surprised by this roster. After listening to clips from the press conference yesterday, I think we're going to see some of what we want but ultimately left wanting when Will Trapp and Zardes start against Mexico.

    After the Gold Cup, I came out thinking we had three glaring issues: Left Back, the 6, and someone besides Altidore to play center forward. Let's take how they were addressed by this roster:

    The 6 - We have Morales and Yuell who can both play there. I hope to see Morales get a start at the 6. Very happy that some actual alternatives were brought into camp.

    Center Forward - Sargent. Given the chance, he will displace Zardes and we can get the Altidore/Sargent center forward grouping we all know should be there.

    Left Back - Yesterday I was concerned but in the press conference, Egg mentioned that Lima would get a chance to play some LB in this camp. Lovitz should not be on the roster but if Lima gets a legit shot there, I will be happy that we're at least trying to address this glaring issue.

    I am disturbed by some of the things I heard in the press conference. He made it sound like Pomykal is a speculative call-up and would be lucky to get playing time. He again insisted how important hitting long passes from the 6 is and mentioned Bradley and Trapp by name as the players that can do that. It's an absurd argument and I guarantee you that Yuell, McKennie, and Morales can ALL hit those same passes given the chance. But the bottom line is if steps are taken to look at other options in each of those three positions along with a few other experiments, I will consider it a successful camp. If Zardes, Ream/Lovitz, and Trapp start both games, it's another wasted opportunity.
     
  19. UncagedGorilla

    Sep 22, 2009
    Tulsa
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    American Samoa
    Dude, I'm counting my blessings. Whatever the reason is for Bradley not being here I will take! I hope TFC schedules multiple games during every international window from now on!
     
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  20. Clint Eastwood

    Clint Eastwood Member+

    Dec 23, 2003
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    #170 Clint Eastwood, Aug 29, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
    Just as an aside, a lot of young players folks have discussed as possibilities are probably going to be at other camps. There are both U23 and U20 camps running at the same time. Keaton Parks for instance will reportedly at the U23 camp (which is preparation for Olympic qualifying). With Pomykal at the USMNT camp, Parks will probably be a key player for that U23 group.

    What I'm hearing for current FCD players so far, for instance :)

    Paxton Pomykal USMNT
    Reggie Cannon USMNT
    Jesse Gonzalez USMNT
    Brandon Servania U23s
    Jesus Ferreira U23s
    Edwin Cerrilo U23s
    Thomas Roberts U20s
    Kevin Bonilla U20s
    Tanner Tessman U20s

    By the way, the Clint Eastwood team of U23s that have been called up by the full USMNT [Remember Klinsmann was called up as a last second replacement for an injured Steffen last year.] Would you pick this team to beat a full over 23 national team.

    ---------------Sargent-------------
    Pulisic----------------------Weah
    -------Mckennie-Pomykal----
    ----------------Adams--------------
    Dest---CCV-M. Robinson-Cannon
    --------------Klinsmann--------------
     
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  21. Jazzy Altidore

    Jazzy Altidore Member+

    Sep 2, 2009
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's no such thing as a leak-proof defense. It is a matter of degrees. And Robinson is a number of degrees better than Lovitz, not even mentioning his offensive skills and relative youth.
     
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  22. USA-Zebuel

    USA-Zebuel Member+

    Mar 26, 2013
    Club:
    Colón de Santa Fe
    You are correct, they have no games. Totally changed my mind. They should definitely send their young starlets to get hacked in a meaningless friendly so that USSF can sell overpriced seats to Mexico fans!
     
  23. rgli13

    rgli13 Member+

    Mar 23, 2005
    Memphis, Tn
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    that midfield should be the full national team
     
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  24. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    #174 juvechelsea, Aug 29, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2019
    why would we want to block by block recreate the last team that didn't qualify? i don't get it. and he's 29 and would be 32 later on.

    also, what does he really "do?" this is a running question with USA mids. we seem to want to pretend everyone is some sort of two way "8" that doesn't have to either produce or defend. but in reality what you want mostly are "10s" and "6s." productive creators and ball winners. you might indulge one "8" who helps out. but it sometimes feels like people want 3 of them. like we're going to argue that you don't really need a playmaker or ball winner, and that your mids can just be drones. it hurts the team to have no one in the midfield who is likely to score or to win a ball. what is the point???????

    anyhow, you said "skill set," this year nagbe is 1G 2A. and he's not the 6 back there cleaning things up with his stats. Trapp is 0G 4A. Yueill is 2G 3A. Baird is 4G 3A. Roldan is 4G 3A. and they aren't offsetting this by destroying attacks the other way. to me this "8" business just sounds like indulging mediocrity. and when you need a goal they aren't supplying it.

    you might get away with this in a 6-0 rout game but what we need is a midfield that can both defend Mexico and put some fear of god in them.

    i realize that berhalter would say that bradley is his 6 and have a couple nominal 10s but it feels like he fudges on who he picks, that Bradley is chosen for passing as a 6 and the "10s" are chosen to run around hustling a lot. so in practice it sounds like three 8s. a 6 chosen to pass and 10s chosen to hustle. i want to see multiple adamses and then start picking AMs for pure danger. i would suggest we would find that someone like holmes or lletget or green or gall or the like woah can also defend.
     
  25. juvechelsea

    juvechelsea Member+

    Feb 15, 2006
    wtf do we care if his belgian team loves and smooches him. he has a NT track record. same deal with green, weah, sargent, a list. if you play well when used -- granted, Horvath is inconsistent -- i don't care how often your club team uses you. wood is one of the few of his type who have simply played like crap more generally.

    out of the considered options he showed second best. i would like to see us consider others like gonzalez (say, Frei) but that's not what we're doing here. we're going back to last cycle's keeper discard pile.
     

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