This kind of reminds me of a writer being happy they got a "positive" rejection letter. Sure, he wasn't benched in the worst possible circumstance, but Brugge felt they had an opportunity for an upgrade and they didn't hesitate to move Horvath to the bench. I think there is some level of performance dissatisfaction involved.
You really think it mattered who the Rapids GK was in 2015? They werent playing there in 2016 no matter what.
Put it this way, would you rather have the fringe USMNT guys getting limited minutes with the USMNT or staying with their clubs in Europe? I think, at least medium-to-long term, those guys are better off with their clubs.
To be fair, there's plenty of room between Mignolet and "not good enough for the US national team." If we had Mignolet in our pool, we'd all be very happy right now and there might even be people saying Steffen should stay in Germany to establish himself.
Americans have so pathetically few assists in MLS that I'm pretty sure you can get a good approximation just by adding assists to the league leaders in goals Altidore 10(+4), Wondolowski 11(+2), Zardes 11(+2), Morris 7(+5), Sapong 10(+1), White 9(+1), Ebobisse 8(+1), Salinas 6(+3)
Let me add on to this. The argument isn't that we should call Euro guys to sit the bench. It's that we should stop calling in guys who clearly aren't up to the task. Many of us believe there are some Euro guys that should be tried at those spots. Here's the way we need to look at it. Lovitz is no good, fine, let's try Garza or Villafana (who has shown he can perform internationally much better than Lovitz). Corey Baird can't get the job done, okay, see if Gall is willing to come with no promise of playing time or bring in Manneh or Picault. The answer to Baird and Lovitz not being good enough isn't more Baird and Lovitz. We just need to stop calling in players who aren't up to the task multiple times in quick succession.
Yeah, that's a different story, though. I'm open to a (perhaps shorter term) Brugge-level backup still being in contention for a NT spot. I'm less enamored with the sentiment I've seen from some U.S. fans that Horvath was somehow screwed over by the club because Mignolet was brought in. The whole "benched but not really benched" is kind of along those lines.
I hear ya but I prefer to play new guys to evaluate what's best for the USMNT going forward. We know we have 5-6 guys on this roster that have no business being there and never will. I want that stuff to end now.
They got a new manager, he wanted to put his own stamp on the program, Horvath was around before he got there, Mignolet is an established vet formerly from a big club who was available on a buy-low to be stashed for when beyond Horvath would be there, and Mignolet is Belgian like the manager. You're making a linear performance situation when it often doesn't work like that. And fwiw a Serie A club believed the 3rd stringer behind Horvath from actual performance over time was good enough to be their starter. Hell, if Horvath stays, he may be ahead of Mignolet over time, after the Belgian gets the first chance off being paid 8 million and brought in under this regime.
I think the disturbing conclusion that you must reach...………………..is that Berhalter doesn't agree with you regarding the ability level of Baird and Lovitz
I get what you're saying. The club has not done him any favors but sometimes that's life as a professional soccer player. As a keeper, there is only one spot you can play. Clearly, his club has some reservations about him. But I'm sure Mignolet being Belgian, available, and very good also had a bit to do with it. We'll see where Horvath ends up. If he's the cup keeper for Brugge, I think he's worthy of staying our #2 for a year. None of the other guys have shown me much. I suspect Gonzalez will be the #3 in short order.
I'm sure Horvath will get callups and chances over the next year. TO me we've got Steffan and everybody else. So maybe Guzan, Gonzalez, Johnson have a chance to impress the staff in training this camp. And then the next set of friendlies, it'll be another three. We're in "expanding the net" mode over the next calendar year. That does mean some guys are going to get caught in that net that may not belong there. Maybe Berhalter has to learn lessons about the international prospects of some of these players the hard way. I'm happy learning these things in friendlies. That's what friendlies are for. I can't really build up the emotional energy to be mad about Lovitz being called in for left back. Why? Sergino Dest plays left back at Ajax and was called in. What we want to see at this camp/games is Dest making a strong statement that he deserves the playing time when the games start to matter. Am I really supposed to be upset at Corey Baird. Really? We have Sargent coming back to stake a claim. Maybe next camp it'll be Sargent and Ebobisse. And the camp after that it'll be Sargent and Sabbi. I don't know. In no way should we think of this roster as Berhalter's current vision of his "Best 23." I don't view it that way.
So this roster omits 11 of the 23 that I had suggested last week. 2 of those guys are (I assume) out for injury, but that's still 9/23 (+3) that aren't there. So with almost 40% of "my" roster left off I should be a bit upset, but nope. I have to admit that the difference between my 9 and GGG's 12 is minimal. Not likley to matter in the long or even short term. Got Dest, Pomykal, Morales, Robinson, and those are the key call ups for this window. The three issues I do have, and this is nothing new to this thread or the past year's worth for that matter: Left Back - Anthony Robinson, Eric Lichaj, Ryan Hollingshead, and insert whomever yo want, are not major oversights, but for Gregg to just bring back Ream and Lovitz is worrisome. They weren't the answer in the Gold Cup, and certainly shouldn't be now. Settling for these two is a problem. Will Trapp - I don't have a real issue with him in the 23 as the alternatives are meh. I do have a big issue if he starts both, or even one of these matches really. Shoehorning in the "only guy who is available that can make that magic diagonal long ball" would be a problem. Corey Baird - Just No. Players just on RSL that I'd call before Baird: Glad, Herrera, Saucedo, Lennon, Toia & Rimando (need him for the Penalty Shootout ), but I wouldn't call any of these guys either.
Looks like we’re trying out outside backs. That’s good, except for Lovitz. Not a lot of width in midfield. Pulisic will play wide, I assume. I’m anxious to see Morales. I don’t know why Baird is back. Bummer Adams is hurt. USA!
I have a feeling that Berhalter doesn't like to bring in too many new players at a time. I can see the logic in that it gives those brought in a chance to work with a lot of starters to give them a fair chance of blending in and the fringe players are all who've already been in camps and know the scheme and what the coach wants.
I'm happy to see Dest and he should sit at number 1 for now, however let's not forget that Reggie Cannon was the best player on the field against Mexico. I'd like to see him get one game in this camp.
I’m surprised more people haven’t mentioned Hollingshead. He’s much better than Lovitz. I get the allure of Robinson because he’s younger, but he also didn’t make it with Everton which is what I think we and our previous coaches were banking on. Robinson would have been better than Lovitz but I think Hollingshead may be our best option for LB currently. I’m hoping for one of these games McKennie can play the 6, Pomykal the 8, and Pulisic as the 10 even though I’d prefer Pulisic on the wing since we don’t have Weah and Boyd has been in poor form (yes it’s early). Whatever keeps Trapp out of the 11.
i think we may play "the system" vs mexico (hence ream and lovitz who can play as that lcb), and then take another swing at a 3/5 man backline against uruguay. it makes sense if you say, roughly, lima on the right, long, brooks and ream vs mexico then long/brooks/robinson with dest and cannon as wingbacks vs uruguay. thats just me speculating, though. i agree its odd to have 5 fullbacks for a set of friendlies. i think we will make some changes between matches, so maybe lima and lovitiz are sent back to their clubs after the first match and a couple of non-conflicted at that point others brought in (or just naming a couple u23s to the roster) for the second.
Not an argument one way or the other. I am curious and because I don't know the Euro based US players (other than the to players) as well as many, I am asking: What non injured Euro based players would you suggest including. i know a few (Robinson for example). I also know that several players (including some key players) are currently injured, so obivously it is difficult to hold the absence of Yedlin, Adams etc against Berhalter.
Here are players that are at least at the Baird/Trapp/Lovitz level and who should be given exposure to Berlahter system and their fellow players instead of giving multiple looks to MLS players who simply and obviously aren’t good enough. To be clear, I’m not saying that these players will make a difference but at least there’s a chance they could while we know that Baird/Lovitz/Trapp cannot. 2-star / AA level Horvath/Brugge 3-star / AAA Level (Top 200) Siebatcheau/Rennes (119) Gall/Malmo (167) Holmes/Derby County (178) AA Level (Top 400~MLS) Cameron/QPR (209) Lichaj/Hull City (224) Amon/FC Nordsjælland (234) Wood/Hannover (240) Soto/Hannover (240) Robinson/Wigan (253) Palmer-Brown/Austria Vienna (272) Klinsmann/St. Gallen (301) Gooch/Sunderland (302) Miazga/Reading (310) Novakovich/Reading (310) Wright/VVV-Venlo (348) Diskerud/Ulsan Hyundai (NR)
Why do so many of our fans think Scandinavian leagues are better than MLS? They're not. I mean, yeah, I'm as interested as anyone in whether Gall or Sabbi might add something different but the Swedish and Danish leagues they play in are worse than MLS and players from those leagues have rarely had much impact with our National Team. I'm as unexcited seeing Baird on the roster as the rest of you but he's playing against tougher competition than Gall/Sabbi and unfortunately is one of the better US players that can play wing forward in MLS currently.
You do realize this is more money grab than preparation for any meaningful games, right? To maximize profits, keep costs down. To keep costs down, don’t fly in fringe players from Europe. It’s an oversimplification of things but the fed schedules Mexico in order to print money. Anything on top of that is gravy.
Agree 100%. There aren’t that many players better than what he’s chosen. Yes there are a couple better than someone like Lovitz but people love to elaborate on problems without a solution. Gall also hasn’t been getting playing time...how is he any better? (not a question for you but the guy you quoted). Sabbi you could argue is worth taking a look at over Baird. When some of the options available aren’t as good as we would like them to be people assume that the player we haven’t seen will be better. Although I’m guilty of this as well.
I’ll take the other side. We know that Baird/Trapp/Lovitz aren’t good enough after multiple call ups. Let’s find out if others aren’t good enough (which they may not be) but at least there’s a chance that they could be. That’s a direct contrast to the obvious experience we’ve seen with the aforementioned three (and others).
This is real weird. Nobody seems to care about Horvath being omitted, even though a few months ago he was our #1/1a. Just because Mignolet took his spot? Which gk do we have who would beat out Mignolet? Nobody. So why does this hurt him?