September 2018 Friendlies: Brazil & Mexico

Discussion in 'USA Men: News & Analysis' started by Eleven Bravo, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    There is no reason to not call in the best players for every FIFA window. This is the National Team, it should be the best. The only caveat would be that we are building towards 2022 (maybe 2026) and there is no reason to give minutes to players over 28 on the decline.

    McKennie and Pulisic have only played one game together ever. Shows that plenty of guys have been given shots. The WC is over, it is a new cycle with a new GM. He should show us who he thinks the best players are with each call up.
     
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  2. Patrick167

    Patrick167 Member+

    Dortmund
    United States
    May 4, 2017
    Anyone watch Tyler Adams lately? All these posters putting him on the wing or RB have obviously not been paying attention. The kid influences the game from the center, tremendously.

    But that aside, there is no American attacking talent in MLS that hodls a candle to the Euro based players. Makes sense, as there are almost no Americans playing attacking positions in MLS.

    All four starters at defense are in Europe (Yedlin, Brooks, Miazga, Robinson). I think Parker has been great, but he is not better than Miazga or Brooks. McKennie is our best CM, but Adams and Trapp are probably starters. But I think you could play Delgado or Green instead of Trapp with the right tactics. So, interestingly, until Adams moves the midfield is 50-50.

    Pulisic, Wood, Weah, are superior to anyone in MLS probably. Sargent, Sabbi, Novacovich Amon, are superior to anyone under 25 in MLS. Altidore is the only attacker in MLS that might start. Arriola and Roldan are not displacing Pulisic or Weah and Sabbi is in better form.

    MLS has more Americans of mediocre quality, that is not depth.

    Interstingly, I don't think there are any Americans in Mexico that makes either roster. I know Sarachan likes Rubin, but I don't know why.

    If our players are going to push themselves and move overseas, they shouldn't punished by passing them over for the honor of a national team call up because they did that.
     
  3. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Yeah, Adams is a CM and nothing else. He could maybe be an emergency option at RB if we have an injury/suspension crisis in a tournament, but he should never be called up with the intention of playing him out wide.
     
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  4. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Adams is more of a rb than cdm. He had a breakout season last year out wide and the game is simplified read-wise. He's moved back inside this year after the transfer of Felipe. But Adams for country and sometimes club has struggled with physical play and when the game is faster deciding on the best read. Has led to costly to's. At fb he's shown good awareness when to venture forward and when to stay back, has recovery speed, can dribble in a straight to the corner, and play smart crosses. He can adequately play both positions, but we shall try him outside first and more often from now on.
     
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  5. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Go watch the first half of Red Bulls v. Columbus, take a break, then watch the second half. Notice where Adams played in each half, and report back on the difference in both his play and on the overall team quality.

    A year ago, you could make an argument about Adams's best position. If you continue to make that argument today, and come down on the side of "wide player," you're demonstrating that you don't watch him actually play, and you're operating with grossly outdated information.
     
  6. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's made a couple of those crushing to's for club this year and when the play has been sped up with the national team it's been exacerbated. Turns the ball over quite often, and can at times be bullied with the play more intense and physical (gonna get worse in CONCACAF). Has still managed to be decent off stamina, range, tactical nous, decent skill, etc.

    Well, that would apply at rb too, plus you'd get the aid of his crossing and speed to get to the end line, and he wouldn't lack strength there, but he hasn't played it since the Portugal game. And I was more content with him I've been on average at cdm. This year he hasn't played rb. So there is no comparison group. He's been in a wing. That's not what I'm advocating for.
     
  7. Sombrerito

    Sombrerito Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    May 6, 2018
    -------------------Wood------------------
    Weah------------------------------Pulisic
    ----McKennie-----------Acosta-----
    ----------------Adams-------------------
    Robinson--Brooks--Miazga---Lima
    ----------------Steffen--------------------

    Rest of roster:
    GK2?
    GK3?
    Villafana
    Arriola
    Sabbi
    Gall
    Gooch
    Amon
    Roldan
    EPB
    CCV
    Cannon

    Call up a young dynamic team again albeit a few players for experience.
     
  8. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    v. Mexico (press emulating u20's against them):

    -------------Novakovich----
    -----Weah---------------Pulisic
    -----------Weston--Roldan----
    Robinson------EPB------Adams
    --------------Glad--Miazga--------
    ----------------Gonzalez---------------

    v. Brasil (controlled counter):

    --------Weah-------Pulisic------
    ----------------Lletget-------------
    --------McKennie--Roldan------
    Lima------------EPB--------Adams
    -----------Brooks--Parker----------
    -----------------Steffen---------------
     
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  9. Sombrerito

    Sombrerito Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    May 6, 2018
    I forgot about Lletget.. He is getting back to top form I would call him in too. I wouldn't be opposed to these formations and personnel.No more dinosaurs from the last cycle:cool:
     
  10. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is where I'm at right now:

    - Andrija Novakovich, Christian Ramirez, Bobby Wood
    - Christian Pulisic, Tim Weah, Sebastian Lletget, Julian Green, Chris Mueller
    - Weston McKennie, Cristian Roldan, EPB, Wil Trapp, Tyler Adams
    - Antonee Robinson, Eric Lichaj, Nick Lima, Reggie Cannon
    - Jon Brooks, Justen Glad, Matt Miazga, Tim Parker
    - Zak Steffen, Jesse Gonzalez, Brad Guzan
     
  11. Mehmet_IL

    Mehmet_IL New Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Aug 25, 2018
  12. Mehmet_IL

    Mehmet_IL New Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Aug 25, 2018
    is jesse gonzales the best keeper in the mls ?
     
  13. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You'll have to do better. The better the bait, the more successful the trolling.
     
  14. Mehmet_IL

    Mehmet_IL New Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Aug 25, 2018
  15. Mehmet_IL

    Mehmet_IL New Member

    Barcelona
    United States
    Aug 25, 2018
    why borussia dortmund ?
     
  16. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I really doubt he's trolling. That question wouldn't provoke anybody. Gonzalez has potential because of his range and has been good this year overall in the few games I've seen as well as statistically. He's 8th of 22 keepers in terms of expected goals saved. But he's somewhat struggled lately. He makes gaffes seemingly due to inconsistent concentration. I think that would be ameliorated in a more competitive environment like internationals or Europe.

    Incidentally the top 7 in expected goals are: 1. Frei, 2. Bush, 3. Turner, 4. Rimando, 5. Willis, 6. Robles, 7. Shuttlesworth. Only 1 and 3 are interesting to me from an international perspective. #12, Tyler Miller, is if he keeps on improving. Steffen is the national team's clear #1 but all the way down at 14. Haven't seen him enough to know if that's a down year or that stat isn't kind to him.
     
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  17. puttputtfc

    puttputtfc Member+

    Sep 7, 1999
    What does that stat mean?
     
  18. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Goals saved relative to the average keeper or what their studies have determined should be expected in the situation. I'm not familiar enough with the formula to know exactly how they judge if a play should have wound up in a goal. I'd imagine part is the placement of the shot, maybe distance is another factor. They have similar metrics for defense in baseball like zone rating and range factor.
     
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  19. manfromgallifrey91

    Swansea City
    United States
    Jul 24, 2015
    Wyoming, USA
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #94 manfromgallifrey91, Aug 26, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
    Basically player x saved 10 shots but 9 of them are right at him, so his rating is lower than player y who saved 4 shots that should be goals. It takes into account how many times a shot was saved from the exact scenario, pass, distance, location, etc based on historical scoring.

    IE Jim dribbles down the right wing floats it to the far post, Tyler knocks it back to the near post and the keeper saves it. That would be a save that would count more than if Tyler hit it straight at the keeper because history says that is a goal most times. More of a year to year to see if a player with a ton of shutouts is lucky or actually make saves that otherwise would result in goals or if a striker is scoring a lot of sitters or above average goal scoring ability.

    Example Josef Martinez has 27 goals (last update I could find) and of those 22 are expected, so any player playing in his spot, given the chances, should have 22 goals. So his expected goal rating is 5

    Gyazi Zardes has 15 goals, with a negative rating, because of his chances 16 goals would be expected, so he is negative 1.

    https://www.americansocceranalysis.com/player-xg-2018/ If you are into advanced metrics, this is a good site to check. It's updated pretty frequently.
     
  20. Pegasus

    Pegasus Member+

    Apr 20, 1999
    Club:
    FC Dallas
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sounds like the goals expected punish forwards who make great runs to get into positions to score and flub one occasionally.
    Gonzalez is on the bench the last two games for the opposite - not saving a couple of obviously saveable goals even though he does stop some of the harder ones. Of course he and Steffen are still young but Jesse needs to grow up in temperament and also get a little of a mean streak instead of always being so laid back. I think his physical gifts have always made it easy for him but to get to the next level he needs to move from boy-child to the man. If he does this he could be great. Does he have it in him?
     
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  21. manfromgallifrey91

    Swansea City
    United States
    Jul 24, 2015
    Wyoming, USA
    Club:
    Southampton FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It definitely does, as with any metric its probably not best to view it in isolation, because some forwards may not make the run, or some keepers may not make the same effort in a meaningless game. But I think if you look at it over the course of two or three years, you get a better sense of what it can bring to analyzing keepers and strikers.

    As far as Gonzalez goes, its the typical I'm good enough to never really have to go to the max player. He still has 2-3 years to really get it together and push forward. The question is will it be enough to unseat those who have surpassed him in the pecking order?
     
  22. Mantis Toboggan M.D.

    Philadelphia Union
    United States
    Jul 8, 2017
    Agree with your general point, if not some of the examples you used of MLS guys--Arriola and Roldan are both quality players and should be in our 23, Arriola in particular is a guy I wouldn't hesitate to start against certain opponents.
     
  23. Sombrerito

    Sombrerito Member

    Arsenal
    United States
    May 6, 2018
    I feel like only one of the three deserving quality young attackers we have will get called unfortunately. Probably Sabbi but Amon and Gall should be getting looks too.
     
  24. Excellency

    Excellency Member+

    LA Galaxy
    United States
    Nov 4, 2011
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    a)If we have any doubts about athleticism in some of our better players who are playing in MLS and are the right age, we should call them up for these Sept friendlies because we will not get a quicker / better test. Can Delgado, Trapp,, Lima, Roldan hang or not? That's what I'd like to know instead of guessing and speculating idly. That age group will benefit the most from these friendlies as they are now coming up against their expectations ceiling in MLS and plateauing. We don't need another "gee, we just had a development hole in x,y,z, age group" essay from Brian Sciaretta who fails to point out it is a hole we dug ourselves.

    b) some players are hopefuls but are very young or, in case of college players, relatively inexperienced. I'd put Mueller in the latter category and Novakovich, Robinson, Amon et al in the former category.

    c) some players are very young but are nearing a high level in Europe and could use an outing to help them at their club. Weah certainly falls into that category and, I would say, Sargent, Parks(?).

    d) Special needs cases - I'd call in somebody like Jozy because I think we have to think in terms of having accessibility to a semblance of a hold up game and by contrast I would leave Wood at home because we've seen him so much now that we hardly need to see him anymore to gauge his expected usefulness.
     
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  25. laxcoach

    laxcoach Member+

    United States
    Jul 29, 2017
    intermountain west
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Agree with the sentiment about finding out who can hang. And to me, experience on the pitch means less at this early stage of rebuild than pure talent and athleticism. That goes for MLS guys or Euro based guys.

    On Wood, I want to see a few games with the new club before casting him aside. Hamburg is a black hole of service and one thing the USMNT should deliver on going forward is service. Maybe he'll get some looks with the new club and can more properly evaluated. Jozy over Zardes if we must bring up old names in these early exhibitions.
     

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