Semper Crescis: Andrija Novakovich at Fortuna Sittard

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad' started by bshredder, Apr 4, 2014.

  1. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Every time I see more highlights of him play, it upsets me more that this very average team doesn't even play him with the first team. I apologize in advance to any Reading fans, but its not like he's at La Masia and has Luis Suarez in front of him with the first team.
     
  2. Greg Heaney

    Greg Heaney Member

    May 5, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The more I see him, I think a fast Dempsey.
     
  3. bballshawn

    bballshawn Member+

    Feb 5, 2014
    Delaware
    Club:
    Philadelphia Union
    very high praise
     
  4. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    Why not Mario Mandzukic?
     
  5. comoesa

    comoesa Member+

    Aug 13, 2010
    Christen Press's armpit
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Good feet.

    I don't know why he can't play for are u23 for a two week period if he clearly is not a part of the first team.
     
    ussoccer97531 repped this.
  6. USAMEX10

    USAMEX10 Member+

    Sep 24, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Pretty stupid of them for not letting him go to the u20 WC because they wanted him on the first team. What assholes they aren't even giving him a chance with the first team
     
    ussoccer97531 repped this.
  7. BostonRed

    BostonRed Member+

    Oct 9, 2011
    Somerville, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Testudo, sakibomb523, wixson7 and 4 others repped this.
  8. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    First, it wasn't solely Reading's call. It was an agreement.
    Second, they did give him a chance. they gave him a long look in training this summer. He's young, he came up short. That's normal.
    Third, before this weekend, they were the form side in the championship. they will be in or around the promotion spots this year.
    And most importantly to his situation, the club brought in three loan attackers, signed Sa, have been playing one of AN's youth team mates in Tshibola (who has been quite good) and Nick Blackman has been out of control (already 10 league goals). None of that was fact, or even suspected, early this summer.
    Still, he's made some gameday rosters. this is not an easy side to break into right now, but he's not that far off. Upsides for AN's chances in the future: the loaners will return to their clubs after this year (unless they are bought outright, but they haven't been at this point), and Blackman hasn't signed past this year. Now, I really hope they resign Blackman, and I'd like to see piazon and Matej brought back, but what I want doesn't mean a thing. the reality is that he's well thought of at a club that is doing very well right now, and is making some really interesting moves for the future (new training ground, etc).
    US fans would do well to remember the trajectory of Bobby Convey at Reading. the first year during which he was expected to be a regular with the first team, he was a nonentity. The next year he was a star. AN is younger than convey at that time.
    He missed a U tourney. A little perspective, though, on that. It was a U tourney, they are meaningless. Players make or break their careers with their clubs. Even senior caps are nothing more than icing.
    AN certainly had a say. For his career, and his actual nats career, he made the right call.
     
  9. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I think of the situation like this, and maybe I'm just being overly critical.

    How would you think of this situation if he can't get more than the occasional appearance in the 18 for an MLS club? I questioned if my assessment on Tommy Redding was right when he was failing to get into Orlando City's 18 earlier this season?

    The Championship is not a high level. This is not Julian Green failing to get into Bayern's first team. Reading is not a top level club. A top level talent at 19 years old should be able to get into a Championship side, regardless of whether or not we prop up the players (Sa, Tshibola, Blackman) the team has.

    Maybe Novakovich isn't as good as some of us (myself included) think.
     
    mschofield and comoesa repped this.
  10. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    I would note that a high level is entirely relative. The play in the championship isn't bad at all. But if the standard is big four or even CL, yeah, it's not that. but not sure how many strikers the US has ever had who would be described as playing below their potential if at 19 they were squaddies at a championship level club.
    Is there anyone?
    The Reading youth system tends to produce attackers who will break through at 19 or 20. they've had some notable success stories, Shane Long and Gylfi Sigurdsson being two recent examples. Neither played much at all until their breakout years, and both broke through with 15+goal seasons in the championship, then went on to very solid prem careers (Long even with Reading for a bit).
    As for the notion of propping up Reading's strikers: Sa is a solid pro, he's good enough to get a taste of the top leagues (and fail) and be a star just below that, in Poland most recently. As a member of Portugal's golden generation, he's been a very edge of the fringe national team player. He'd have been the same for the US, I'd think.
    Tshibola is young and very comparable to AN, at the same stage of their careers, so he would represent the upside of what was hoped for by US fans of AN this season at Reading. He shows that Reading was quite willing to play a young player up top, they just picked a different one.
    Blackman scored 10 times in his first 12 games this season. I don't care what professional level you're at, that's a nice strike rate. He's the top scorer in the championship. Has the US ever had a striker capable of doing that at 19?
    If the rating is that AN is CL star quality, then back off a bit, that is unrealistic and unfair. But this says nothing about his ability to become a very solid pro, and even a bit of a star.
     
    ussoccer97531 repped this.
  11. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think it's worth noting to take into account context. "MSchofield" provided some, like his age, competition, and the level at which Reading is playing in the Championship this season. Vis a vis the competition MSchofield mentioned, even this Tshibola cat is over a year and a half older, has been with Reading since '08, and a pro since '13. There's quite a bit of seniority there. It also doesn't hurt that he's English competing with an American, let's be real here. At least tie goes to the domestic. I also think position with the national team is worth some. He's competing with Jozy Altidore. What was young Volmy doing at the same age? He was not getting off the bench for a Spanish second division side (albeit one who ended up getting promoted).

    I don't think you can make blanket indictments of 2nd division players just like people shouldn't make blanket indictments of MLS players. They deserve their own individual examination. Everyone has to start their career somewhere. This dude only started it, what, a couple months ago? Give him time. There are a bunch of late teens even early 20-somethings on LA Galaxy who barely if ever play we're still high on. I think you'll be on the wrong side here because this kid appears to have some solid physical abilities, skills, and a confident mindset.
     
  12. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I still rate the kid, I'm just beginning to question how good he is. I thought this was going to be the season he starts getting first team playing time, and that just hasn't happened. Seb Lletget went through this where every season was supposed to be his breakout season, and it just didn't happen. If he's as good at 23 as Lletget is, that'd be good, but the point I'm making is that if this kid is one of our best talents, shouldn't he be able to play for Reading? Maybe the answer is no, I'm just not sure.
     
  13. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sometimes is not as cut and dry as you put it. Take Lletget for example, in Europe they thought he was never going to be ready, yet, once given a chance the kid showed he can play and have success at our MLS level. How much better is he going to get? it all depends on his opportunities, opportunities that he wasn't getting abroad. I think it may end up beign the same with Nova.
     
    ussoccer97531 repped this.
  14. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    With Lletget, I think Fat Sam was there for a good majority of this adult time, especially after the illness and injury, and he was a conservative coach who leans heavily on vets and defense to avoid relegation. While Lletget impressed in reserves and friendlies, so he was always on the cusp, and they didn't feel like they should move him. Left him in career limbo. That's my perception of the situation.

    We're far away from that with Novakovich. First year as a pro, 18-19, and he's already gotten in a couple games. In all likelihood he'll either breakthrough there or get loaned out to like a lesser Championship side sooner rather than later. I'd be shocked if he just lingered there for a few more years. Lletget's situation was pretty unique.
     
    The Irish Rover repped this.
  15. mschofield

    mschofield Member+

    May 16, 2000
    Berlin
    Club:
    Union Berlin
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    In June when the Olympics call was made, the new owners weren't through with running the numbers. Reading had just come through a bad owner (son of a Russian oligarch who it turned out did not have access to dad's $20 billion) and were in a bit of a financial mess. The thought at that point was that Reading was going to have to make due with what they'd had, and what they'd had was barely enough to avoid relegation last year (though did make it to the semis of the FA cup). In that reality, AN would have been a much bigger part in the 15-16 side than he's been to this point.
    But the owners saw some daylight and let loose a bunch of cash.
    They've brought in six solid loan players (one more than can be on a game day sheet) and a couple quite capable purchases, and he's been pushed down the ladder by the sorts of talent that will always push a young player down the ladder, good, reliable pros (very good for championship quality), and no one saw Blackman going nuclear.
    IMO, a professional camp is more valuable to a young player's future than a youth tourney, so for his development, I think he made the right call regardless of how it turned out. I know many others disagree.
     
    The Irish Rover, Winoman and FirstStar repped this.
  16. ArsenalMetro

    ArsenalMetro Member+

    Arsenal
    United States
    Aug 5, 2008
    Chicago, IL
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    #91 ArsenalMetro, Oct 29, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2015
    I don't think that's fair to Allardyce. He basically handed the reins of the defense to Winston Reid when he was 23. James Tomkins has been a lock-starter since he was 22. He relied heavily on 23-year-old Andy Carroll. 22-year-old Carl Jenkinson played almost every game last season.

    Lletget's failure at West Ham has more to do with his talents than anything else. He's a good player, and he has been terrific in MLS, but even watching him with the Galaxy, you can see why he never quite cracked the West Ham squad (overall pace, speed of thought, touch).

    I haven't watched enough of Novakovich to say much about why he hasn't made a breakthrough yet, but...he's only 19. As a point of comparison, Danny Welbeck didn't make double-digit appearances in the league until he was 21 years old. It isn't time to panic.
     
  17. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Serious question. In an average week, how many hours do you spend watching soccer? Because the breadth and depth of your opinions on players and teams and leagues is incredible.
     
  18. Dave Marino-Nachison

    Jun 9, 1999
    Maybe, but even so it's reasonable to believe it's possible that Lletget simply wasn't good enough for minutes in the EPL as a young player while simultaneously wondering why the club bothered keeping him around for six years, without so much as a short-term loan, if so. And even then, maybe it was all just down to complex circumstances regarding timing, health (his own and his squad's) and who knows what else...
     
    jakepc42 repped this.
  19. The Irish Rover

    The Irish Rover Member+

    Aug 1, 2010
    Dublin
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Ireland Republic
    Put it another way, if staying with the club for training helps him become a first team regular that'll - automatically - help him breakthrough to the senior MNT.
    Breaking through to the YNT helps him . . . consolidate his place on that particular YNT. It does almost nothing to help breakthrough at club level, and that puts him back on the MNT depth chart.
     
  20. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You're really helping my case with all the examples you provided. All of them were older than Lletget and already integrated in the Premier League before Allardyce got to them. It would be like saying, even though he's debuted no prospects from MLS at this point outside January camp, that Klinsmann wasn't a greatly biased against and a skeptic of the league's young players on account he grandfathered in a few like Omar and Shea. Well, a few have tried to argue that, but they were seriously trying to fit a narrative too.

    I don't agree at all with your assessment of Lletget. A couple of those supposed weaknesses are great strengths, like touch and speed of thought. Then I'd say his speed is decent, especially if he's playing centrally. His quickness is good. He's just not a burner and is pretty small. From every report we heard is he did well in friendlies and reserves. The next step logically is a shot with the first team. For him not to then receive that, the fair deduction is conservatism of the manager, especially when he has earned that rep.
     
  21. USAMEX10

    USAMEX10 Member+

    Sep 24, 2010
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Lletget is 5'10'' and he's beefed up since the last time I saw him with the YNT before he went to LA. He's not small
     
    LouisZ repped this.
  22. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Youtube: Jimmy Dore, Secular Talk
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's definitely a beefcake, but he looks about Landon's height, regardless what he's listed in America. In England, they listed him at 1,78 metres, which is 5'8.4". So that seems about right. Still, Donovan was our best player, and Messi is the GOAT at under that height, so it's hardly a huge restriction. He just won't be winning a bunch of headers and galloping past defenders in a couple steps. Without Landon's type practical sprinter speed, makes him a better candidate to play more centrally internationally I think. If he plays out wide it should at least be as an attacking wing nearer to goal, and that more fits the tactics for the U.S. against bad teams. Against good teams he's a CAM and maybe you could get away with putting him on one side of the diamond. But I'd prefer him closer to goal.

    Not to get sidetracked here too much. This thread of course is about Novakovich.
     
  23. ussoccer97531

    ussoccer97531 Member+

    Oct 12, 2012
    Club:
    --other--
    I don't know if thats meant as a compliment or not, but just watching games, probably around 5-10 hours, could be more or less depending on the week. I have weeks where I watch more and weeks where I watch less.

    I certainly don't think I'm an expert, but I try to stay informed. You don't always need to watch games to get an informed opinion. If you know how to sift through BS, you can get it through the internet, soccer analysis programs/podcasts, talking to friends, family, co-workers who follow the sport.

    For example, I've watched Novakovich play no more than a few times, but I like his skill-set. The highlights help some as well, but now its mostly just a matter of getting his pro career going. Unless there is a big difference in his skill-set from one viewing to the next, you can make an informed opinion on Novakovich just by his progress at Reading. Occasionally that might not be so, but most of the time it is.
     
  24. superdave

    superdave Member+

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes. ;)
     
  25. LouisZ

    LouisZ Member+

    Oct 14, 2010
    Southern California-USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I haven't seen enough of Nova to come up with a set opinion of the kid, I know how big he is, I have seen some of his scoring highlights but I haven't seen a full game of him yet. The reports out there seems that he is groomed for more playing time, he even signed a contract and forgo YNT calls up to concentrate on his club and then we hear that his club got other forwards for reinforcement. If I was him I would get a backup plan just in case.
     
    ussoccer97531 repped this.

Share This Page