Semi-Finals: Portland Thorns FC at FC Kansas City Aug 23, 2014

Discussion in 'KC Current' started by Forgedias, Aug 23, 2014.

  1. Forgedias

    Forgedias Member

    Mar 5, 2012

    Actually Rodriguez rarely ever makes diagonal runs, what she does is, she back passes to a player and then runs out wide hoping for an over the top ball. She rarely ever tries to run diagonally to try to get a return feed from the midfielder. And because she back passes all the time, there is rarely ever a return ball because she is running away from the player with the ball.

    On defense, Rodriguez never back tracks to defend. She sits so high up the field so she doesn't need to. Holiday does quite a bit of defending, sometimes too much. But what Hagen brings is exactly like she did against Portland. The ability to play with her back to goal and wait for runs and send through balls for those players. Holiday gave Hagen the ball and made a run, hoping for a return feed and she got it. That is the definition of a 1-2 passing play that Rodriguez simply doesn't do. She doesn't play with her back to goal or holds the ball up and waits for players to make runs. In a 4-2-3-1, that one top forward, has to be able to hold and play with her back to goal. This allows Holiday to be activated on the attack like she was in Portland. Its why she picked up 12 goals in the first season of the NWSL. You want Holiday to be activated then she can use her creativity to either go for goal or create for others since she also had 9 assists in her first year.

    Any formation that doesn't use Holiday to her fullest is wasting her talent. She is the heart of this offense and the forward has to cooperate, this isn't a forward driven offense. This is Holiday's team.
     
  2. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    she does it repeatedly throughout the game. obviously, we're seeing a different game.

    what she sometimes does if she gets the ball on a diagonal run is take off and try to beat her defender, which is an effective way to play to her strength - use her speed. i'm sure she is coached to do exactly that.

    hagen, on the other hand does the hold up and pass on better, because she does not have breakaway, blow by the defender speed, and is therefore coached to play exactly that way - to her strengths.

    and holiday is coached to interact with them differently.

    you may not like it. but it's being handled very well.



    because her coach does not want her to. vlatko does not use her for all the way back defending like harvey sometimes uses leroux. he has a specific purpose in keeping her further up the field. he prefers her speed to always be in a threatening position against the defense.

    arod is not averse to backtracking all the way to defend. she has done it with relish for the wnt when asked to do so.
     
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  3. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If I recall correctly, Vlatko said one of Rodriguez' roles is to force defenders to stay with her, creating space for the others on her team. In that context, it would make total sense for her not to be tracking back to defend. What she does off the ball is important for what it allows her teammates to do.
     
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  4. Forgedias

    Forgedias Member

    Mar 5, 2012
    There are other examples where Rodriguez does not defend. There was a match where on a free kick, the ball got knocked way out of the box, either due to a deflection or a block and Rodriguez and another player from the other team were the closest to the ball and it was a 50-50 ball. The other player got to the ball beating Rodriguez by 1 or 2 yards and Rodriguez immediately let up and stopped moving after that. The other player then started a counter and created a very dangerous scoring chance since Kansas City only keeps 2 defenders back on set pieces. If Rodriguez back tracked and at least harrased the player she would of at least put some pressure on the counter. She was right where the player picked up the ball, she could of easily joined in on the defense and back tracked, with her pace, she could of done this, but Rodriguez just stopped moving and gave up on the play. That one play, made it very clear where Rodriguez's head is when it comes to defending. She doesn't defend or back track, its not her style.

    There is a thread where I made a note of that play in one of these game threads I posted. I was pretty disappointed with Rodriguez about her giving up on that play.
     
  5. kolabear

    kolabear Member+

    Nov 10, 2006
    los angeles
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    KC fans are a tough crowd! No one better ask Rodriguez for her favorite BBQ -- there'd be hell to pay. :)
     
  6. Forgedias

    Forgedias Member

    Mar 5, 2012
    This wouldn't be so much an issue, if Rodriguez would actually hold up play and actually play off to a running player. By not doing this, they take an option of creating offense away from Kansas City. They only use one forward. At least if they had Hagen and Rodriguez this wouldn't be so much of an issue, but Kansas City switched back to a 4-2-3-1 and that leaves Hagen out. Hagen proved how important her role is for the team when she got Holiday open on a 1-2 play. Its another option for Kansas City. The hold up role is so important in the one forward formation that Kansas City uses.
     
  7. Blaze20

    Blaze20 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Seattle Reign FC
    Sep 22, 2009
    Club:
    Philadelphia Independence
    Let me see if I get this straight:
    Arod scores the game winning goal - not important
    Hagen assists the goal that seals the win - Vitally important
     
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  8. MiguelNajdorf

    MiguelNajdorf Member

    May 4, 2011
    I agree playing back to goal would add another dimension to Arod's game. It's interesting, I remember an interview with Morgan the first 6 months with the senior team-she was asked "anything you're working on? and she replied "playing with my back to goal - I've never had to do that." So many speedy forwards never learn. Being a sounders fan, Obafemi is a good example of a short, powerful, speedy player that can play back to goal, and distribute to runners.

    Although (edit: Hagen's) not as fast, it would be interesting to compare scoring percentage between the two players, Arod and Hagen.
     
  9. FCKCEvans

    FCKCEvans Member

    Nov 29, 2013
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    Not all of us are this way. Forgedias is overly critical of Arod. He does have some points in that Arod isn't great at holding the ball up but Arod just isn't his style and there's no convincing him to see her value in other facets of the game. I've tried...

    Not trying to be a jerk, just being honest. Arods not a perfect hold up forward but she does a lot of other things well and she scores. I think that's how most of the other KC fans feel. Arod has always been a mercurial forward for whatever reason. And KC fans are conflicted bc Hagen is a better hold up forward but doesn't have some of the other talents Arod does.
     
  10. FCKCEvans

    FCKCEvans Member

    Nov 29, 2013
    Club:
    FC Bayern München
    To be fair, Portland had essentially given up by the time Hagen went in...and I love Hagen and see her value.
     
  11. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    More than that, Arod scores the game winning goal on a diagonal run. Not important and she doesn't make diagonal runs.
     
  12. Forgedias

    Forgedias Member

    Mar 5, 2012
    Look you guys are forgetting Kansas City plays with one forward. That forward HAS to be able to hold up play in that formation. The fact that she can't and doesn't even try to connect to Holiday when she passes to Rodriguez and makes a run, is frustrating as hell. She has to hold up, has to provide balls to Holiday on the run. That is her role!

    Who cares if Rodriguez scores 14 goals for Kansas City, if she isn't playing her role. She has to be the hold up option and the fact she doesn't do it limits the options that Kansas City has going forward. Hagen just by her presence allows the midfield to have more options.

    We play a one forward system. Rodriguez sucks, absolutely sucks playing in that system. Think Barca of what that one forward does for their team. He plays his role, he activates Messi on the attack. Guess what? Messi a midfielder scored 90 goals in a calender year. In fact if your so in love with Rodriguez, take Rodriguez off our hands so we can start Hagen.
     
  13. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    (Emphasis added.)

    I'm curious, has her coach told her that's what her role is or is it what you think it should be? Maybe he doesn't see players' roles in their formation the way you do?
     
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  14. Forgedias

    Forgedias Member

    Mar 5, 2012
    No I think he has to play Rodriguez since he traded for her and she is a national team player. Unlike any other league, the national team players have to play. If Hagen was allocated, you could see something different.

    And your comment about diagonal runs. Rodriguez very rarely ever does diagonal runs. She almost always runs away from the player with the ball, looking for the over the top ball, which doesn't happen normally in the Kansas City style of play. That was one of the few times Rodriguez actually made a diagonal run so Holiday could connect to her.

    People here say, she scored all these goals, she does her job, no she does not do her job. If she did her job, then she would play with her back to goal and provide more options up front instead of being one dimensional on the attack.
     
  15. Forgedias

    Forgedias Member

    Mar 5, 2012
    Yeah the Hagen assist is more important. It actually shows she can play the one role that Rodriguez cannot do! You know play your back to goal, GASP!!!! OMG, you know actually activate Holiday on the attack! OMG when has that happened this year. Very rarely. Last season, it happened all the time with Henderson up top. This year its been few and far between.
     
  16. cpthomas

    cpthomas BigSoccer Supporter

    Portland Thorns
    United States
    Jan 10, 2008
    Portland, Oregon
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I take this as meaning that Arod is not playing the role you think she should play. Your opinion does not have to do with the role that her coach thinks she should play, as you do not claim to know what he thinks. So, if you were the coach, she would be playing behind Hagen consistent with the role you want for that position. And, you apparently are confident her 14 goals would be significantly superseded by the goals FCKC would have scored if Hagen had been their first option instead of Arod.

    Or, which is a possibility, you are claiming that her coach is doing what the USSF wants and is not telling the truth about what he wants.
     
  17. luvdagame

    luvdagame Member+

    Jul 6, 2000
    her coach apparently likes her back-to-the-goal-get-holiday-involved play.

    http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-comme...-questions-national-women-soccer-league-final

    "We knew that she can get behind the line; we knew that she can make runs and she can expose back lines with speed," Andonovski said of adding Rodriguez, whose rights were held by Seattle a season ago. "The one thing she has done this year, more so than any other year before, and what made her different, is she's getting involved a little bit more in the buildup and she's getting more involved in the play. She gets the ball with her back to the goal and gets Lauren more involved."

    ...she's not perfect, but this is the arod i see as well.
     
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