Seleção General Discussion, 2018 and beyond

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Century's Best, Jul 17, 2018.

  1. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Yes they are not strikers like Romario and Ronaldo that could run at defenses . But instinct is not their problem . Fred was a pretty prolific goal scorer his whole career . Jesus does have good instincts in the box. That’s not the problem IMO. Fred for example did find spaces in 2014 but often the ball never got to him. We shouldn't need a Romario or Ronaldo type of striker to win a WC. France just won a WC with Giroud not scoring a single goal. While that's extreme, neither Germany, nor Spain or Italy had those types of strikers when they won.

    Also, most of Ronaldo's goals were really well assisted. They were not a result of him running at defenders and creating opportunities for himself.
     
  2. samuel_clemens

    Dec 20, 2005
    Los Angeles CA
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    He played with those guys, but not in 1986 which was the year he won. Batistuta and Caniggia came up around 1990.

    Neymar may still win the WC as the talent drought we're going through is actually a thing worldwide . He's not an outgunned Maradona in 86, because the playing field among football nations is leveled, albeit "nivelado por baixo". But even then, he's never been in serious contention for player of the year award, even after 5 seasons in Europe and with Messi and Cristiano now on the decline. How can he be our best ever if he;s not even the best of his time, even worse when the skill level is at an all time low.
     
  3. Doc_Exec

    Doc_Exec Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    Maradona did play with tall players in 1986. Burruchaga, Valdano, Batista, Brown, Ruggeri etc. were all 6 ft or more. Therefore, Maradona (and the Argies in general) often sent in crosses into the box. Iirc, almost half of their goals in 1986 came through high crosses. Neymar doesn't have that luxury with GJ and Firmino. Of course Neymar is no Maradona. He will never be close to being Brazil's best player ever. However, we need not dismiss him as yet. He might even become the best player in the world if he stays healthy for a full season. I think he has the ability to take Brazil to WC glory if he finds a striker who converts regularly (like he has at PSG). PSG doesn't have the other pieces that make Brazil tick but they have a solid forward line, which Brazil lacks.
     
  4. samuel_clemens

    Dec 20, 2005
    Los Angeles CA
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I don't get it, especially when you just said a couple of posts above that Zico and Falcao got stuck because the CF couldn't score. Chulapa , Socrates were pretty big guys and even Falcao himself was over 6'. If things were as simple as having one playmaker lobbying over to a bunch of tall guys, Beckham's England and every Dutch generation would've stacked WC trophys. What Maradona did in 86 was absolutely special, regardless of how tall his teammates were.
     
  5. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Football can be a whole lot more circunstancial than people want to believe.
     
  6. Doc_Exec

    Doc_Exec Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    What Maradona did was surely fantastic and has possibly only been matched at the WC level by Pele and Garrincha. I'm not debating that. What I implied was that Maradona (and Argentina in general) had the additional option of making high crosses into the box in 1986, which Neymar and co. recently did not have (except on corners). So, their options for setting up the forwards are limited as it is. They are further impacted by having forwards who are not adept at scoring goals (particularly from half chances, at least at that level). Some of you might think circumstance or fortune played a large role in Brazil winning the WCs. However, I think it is ability that largely determines fortunes. Moreover, it is not a question of merely winning but overall performance. The Brazilian forward line currently poses no threat as opposed to what they did in the winning years (this is assuming Neymar, Coutinho, DC as being behind the forwards). Brazil’s previous successes were not merely down to the luck of the draw but also ability that is currently missing from the forward line. For example, the same German players did not suddenly stop creating chances when Klinsman or Klose retired (or Real Madrid when CR7 left). The replacements are not that good at taking the chances created or finding situations that will provide them the chances. That’s the circumstantial aspect of it. Brazil needs to find better options as forwards if they are to change their recent fortune at the WC level.
     
  7. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I am not saying they are at the same level , but Romario and Ronaldo each missed more clear chances than Fred and Jesus had put together . That’s a fact .
     
  8. Doc_Exec

    Doc_Exec Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    That is true. But that is also because they could be in positions where they got those chances. Often they created the chances themselves. Anyways, if they only missed chances, we would not eulogize them. They created chances, dribbled, shot, scored, assisted, and did everything else necessary to win. Fred and GJ did none of that either (apart from not being in positions to even miss). At best, they were like Giroud (GJ has more quality though).
     
  9. Doc_Exec

    Doc_Exec Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    Diego Costa was a huge loss for Brazil. He would've been the next guy to lead the line effectively after L Fabiano. Now the search continues.
     
  10. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I honestly rather lose than win with that guy.
     
  11. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    And it was a damn shame when Scolari became coach back in '01 that he didn't give Oseas not 1 damn call up!! For all the service he gave him at Palmeiras and Cruzeiro!!:thumbsdown:
     
  12. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    With Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Ronaldinho, and other players, you wanted Oséas? :confused:
     
  13. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    No it was just that Scolari didn't show loyalty to club players that served him well in the past!! I'm not saying that Oseas should've went to the World Cup, but him, Paulo Nunes, Alex, and Jardel(to an extent) was left mainly out in the cold!!
     
  14. old_carioca_in_nyc

    Jan 26, 2007
    Brazil manager Tite has picked Germany as Brazil's first European post-World Cup opponent, in March 2019. It is the most appealing choice among the available options, as other countries will be tied up with the Euro League. #FechadoComASeleção

    this was from brasilstats?
     
  15. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Germany ? Timinho de segunda divisão :ROFLMAO:
     
  16. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Will the game be in Germany or Brazil?
     
  17. old_carioca_in_nyc

    Jan 26, 2007
    I have no idea... probably in Germany, or other european place, if revenues are an issue...
    I cannot find any other source for this info!
     
  18. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I believe it will be in Europe because after we play Germany the 2nd game in late March will be vs Denmark!! And we play 2 last friendlies in Brazil before our Copa America!!
     
    Doc_Exec repped this.
  19. Doc_Exec

    Doc_Exec Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    Hope they play the match in Denmark.
     
    omajac repped this.
  20. omajac

    omajac Member+

    Feb 9, 2002
    East Orange, New Jersey, USA
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Too bad we're not playing Belgium!!:D
     
  21. old_carioca_in_nyc

    Jan 26, 2007
    Playing against 2 Europeans will be good prep for Copa America...
     
  22. Doc_Exec

    Doc_Exec Member

    Jul 7, 2004
    Beating them outside of the WC will make no difference to our hurt.
     

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