Seleção 2014-15: Dunga II Begins -- Post Cup, Pre Qualifiers [R]

Plus Scolari is old fashioned. He is just a motivator but is very tactically limited. They thing that irritates me is that he did not bring in other players to the world cup. The only new additions were Willian,Fernandinho,Henrique. It was obvious he could have brought Hernane,or Firminio. He stood by his guys but did not bring the best guys. Plus for the Germany he tried to play open against them. He should have used a 4-3-3.
Scolari completely failed tactically.How can amyone think that a 2 man midfield could handle Kroos, Khedira, and Schweinsteiger, all of whom are very energetic, tough midfielders that love to bomb forward?

 

I'm sorry I can't vote on the Scolari question because I'm so torn because I'm such a huge Scolari fan, but he's not the same coach from 2002 or his Palmeiras '99 days!!

While I admire his loyalty to his players, but when he becomes too stubborn to see that he can't put a square peg into a round hole then it is time for him to head for greener pastures(and I'm not talking about coaching for money!!)

 

Dunga brought in Nilmar(lol),old ass Grafite,an aging Kleberson was riding the bench,Josue,Kaka just came out of injury and had no replacement for him. Dunga's callups was bizzare and in the end didnt help us at all. Dunga was too stubborn just like Big Phil.

 

I don't think people really know what it is like trying to build a team. It is hard enough getting 16 year old kids in high school to have unity on a team let alone rich men with huge egos. That is why you see strange call ups and most of the time I can defend them.

 

In retrospect, I think Dunga did a good job. I didn't agree with many of his decisions at the time, but in the end he built a team that won the Copa America, the Confederations Cup, and was one stupid play away from giving us a chance at the 2010 World Cup. I don't think we should've tossed him because of the loss to the Netherlands, and we would probably have a much more solid foundation this year.
Mano was pretty bad. The team never clicked with him, and Felipão was much more successful using pretty much the same players.
There's a big difference in style between a good club coach and a good NT coach. Club coaches need to excel in leagues with plenty of time to adjust, and need to mold whatever players they have available to perform to their best. Muricy and Luxemburgo are good at this, Felipão is not.
Felipão is a motivator. Dunga has a similar style, which he brought from when he was a player. A NT coach doesn't need to teach anyone how to play football, he just needs to take 11 rich prima donnas and make them competitive. Bernardinho from our Volleyball team would probably make a great NT coach in football as well!

 

@Guigs, I’m addressing you because your line of thinking is very much “against the current.” Your defense of Paulinho until the end is probably the best example of that.

In this thread, you’ve made the case, based on Joachim Low, that we need not have a superstar-level coach; we need, rather, a manager who will get a team built and operating, and again, you cite Low as the example. Low did not have an extensive resume; surely, next to Pep Guardiola’s, Alex Ferguson’s, or Arsene Wenger’s, his resume is modest. Yet here he is, having reached 2 straight World Cup semifinals, on the verge of leading Germany to a historic fourth World Cup title.

However, let’s say that CBF does what the German FA did in 2000. After losing 2 of 3 games in the group stage of that year’s European Championship, the German FA told all its first-division clubs to start working on youth development. Let’s say then CBF does this and the first-division teams of Brazil begin to invest heavily on developing and honing youth talent. Let’s further say that the Brazilian calendar is changed to mirror Europe’s. Let’s further say that CBF’s leadership changes enough (whether personnel replacements or a new mentality) and it becomes a more honest and transparent organization.

Wouldn’t we nonetheless need a coach with some experience?

The 2018 World Cup qualifying will begin, I think, in 2015 – they began in 2003 after the Penta. We have a Copa América in 2015. The new Brazilian NT will change and morph over time en route to Russia 2018. Even if the fruits of a massive youth development program are reaped in time for 2018, we’ll still need a competent manager to build a team.

This is why I said way back Tite was the man for the job. He built a cohesive unit with Corinthians. The team didn’t play beautifully, but it was very efficient. In the same Libertadores, Tite’s Corinthians defeated defending champion Santos (with Neymar) by beating them in Vila Belmiro, defeating Boca Juniors with a 3-1 aggregate (and outplaying and outhustling and outclutching Boca in every aspect in the return match), and defeating Chelsea in a lackluster but very solid performance. Isn’t that what Brazil needs? A manager who can build and teach a group of players who plays like a team?

That’s what Joachim Low did.

 

Guigs keeps this board interesting and he's a great poster, but he is the definition of "um cara do contra". I refuse to believe that he actually believes all the stuff he tries to argue.

 

Yes.

In 1930, Píndaro de Carvalho Rodrigues was kept on the job after Brazil did not win its group and failed to reach the semifinals. Píndaro coached Brazil after the Cup.

In 1934, Luís Augusto Vinhaes remained on the job after Brazil did not win the tournament.

In 1938, Adhemar Pimenta was our World Cup coach, and by early 1939, when Brazil played the Copa Roca, Carlos Nascimento was the manager. I couldn't find information if Pimenta was fired right after the World Cup, but Brazil didn't play again from its final match until January 1939.

In 1950, Flávio Costa was the manager of the team. When Brazil played its first game after that fateful day in Rio, it was 1952, and a new manager, Zezé Moreira, was in place. I speculate Costa was fired, but the team didn't play again for nearly 2 full years.

In 1954, Zezé Moreira was the manager, and he coached the team into 1955, with a 1-1 draw against Chile in the Taça Bernardo O'Higgins tournament. In the next match, Vicente Feola was managing, so I assume Moreira was fired after that initial tie.

In 1966-1967, Vicente Feola was replaced after the World Cup. By early 1967, when Brazil returned to the field for the first time since the match vs. Portugal in England, Aimoré Moreira was the manager.

In 1974, Zagallo failed us. In 1975, Osvaldo Brandão had taken his place.

In 1978, Cláudio Coutinho coached us in that World Cup, and he stayed on the job until the end of 1979.

In 1982, Telê Santana was later replaced by Carlos Alberto Parreira.

In 1986, Telê Santana was later replaced by Carlos Alberto Silva.

In 1990, Sebastião Lazaroni was replaced by Falcão.

You and I and the rest of us know the rest of the story.