Seleção 2014-15: Dunga II Begins -- Post Cup, Pre Qualifiers [R]

Discussion in 'Brazil' started by Guigs, Jul 9, 2014.

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Who would be the ideal choice as new Seleção manager?

Poll closed Aug 13, 2014.
  1. Felipão

    9.1%
  2. Muricy

    6.1%
  3. Tite

    18.2%
  4. Luxemburgo

    9.1%
  5. Guardiola

    24.2%
  6. Other Foreign Manager

    21.2%
  7. Other Domestic Manager

    12.1%
  1. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    @Redshift @celito @Mengão86 @Century's Best @Kaka10725 @leonidas @omajac @Alvinegro! @Lockeroom @Ombak @Brazil_1500 @MatthausSammer @AcesHigh

    Now I invite you guys to enter a non knee jerk reaction discussion.

    As you guys are contemplating about our coaching position and saying how our coaches are not prepared etc, I invited our very own German correspondent @MatthausSammer to explain to you guys something you do not want to hear, and the big difference between our FA to the German FA...

    Because this is where you guys are taking the coaching conversation to yet AGAIN... we need a big accomplished name to be our coach, you guys are sounding like the very entity you despise, CBF, because inside their hallways the same conversations are happening right now. Why are they having the same exact conversations? Because they know is what YOU want, and not what's BEST for the National Team.

    "Insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result"
    Benjamin Franklin

    Let's not be insane, we don't need a big name coach, we don't need an accomplished coach, we don't need a coach used to deal with pressure.

    @MatthausSammer please explain to them where has your coach come from, and what is the biggest title he has won before becoming your National Team coach.

    After his explanation we can continue the conversation. Please try to keep everyone tagged or even tag more people you would think would be interested in entering the discussion.

    Let's move past the our team lacks talent (because they play for the best and most talented teams in Europe) let's move past our team lacks emotional stability (because they play for the biggest pressure cooker of a team in the world)
     
    Deep Pal repped this.
  2. Brazil_1500

    Brazil_1500 Member

    Nov 3, 2003
    NY
    basically we need to revamp Brazilian Football system and reform CBF completely.
     
  3. Renato Goulart

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Jun 25, 2014
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    CBF is only as terrible as it is because of the clubs. Without their support, CBF wouldn't be able to do anything. CBF makes for an easy target and excuse for every club president to blame our misfortunes on our calendar, transfer policies, useless tournaments, etc. But then every election they go and vote to maintain the status quo. It's really a shame, because Brazil really has what it takes to have a top 5 domestic football program, and yet we lose players, endorsements, tv coverage, to leagues from places with no football tradition.
     
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  4. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Ok that's like saying the solution for poverty is money... easier said than done, let's work on actual steps to be taken, baby steps if you will.
     
  5. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    We know our problems, I'm trying to get people to talk more about solutions.
     
  6. Brazil_1500

    Brazil_1500 Member

    Nov 3, 2003
    NY
    I agree we need phase out this destructive cycle of losing top players to sub-par leagues like those in eastern Europe. I have seem this happen for a decade now people with talent end up into those leagues, Brazilian Football need to be fixed from state level to national level and into National Team.

     
  7. Brazil_1500

    Brazil_1500 Member

    Nov 3, 2003
    NY
    alas Brazilian league can be very profitable and be at the same level like those in Europe only if there was real organization and new centre to develop new coaches and real investment at the youth level and not to just sale them to sub-par leagues around the world.
     
  8. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Well my mistake I guess, I was hoping people would talk about reality and solutions and not point out problems which everyone knows they exist..

    I didn't want this to turn into a Blame Globo for the state of football in Brazil
     
  9. Renato Goulart

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Jun 25, 2014
    Houston, TX
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Unfortunately I'm afraid I don't know the solution. There are too many variables, but if you're open to brainstorming, I can throw some ideas for us to discuss:

    1. A Brazilian league with only 16 teams, 30 matches, 2 relegations and 2 promotions
    - This would reduce the number of matches in our league and make each game more meaningful. Stop midweek league matches and give players more time to rest and practice

    2. Brazilian National team only calling players that are in the Brazilian League for the National Team
    - This will probably result in us getting killed in the next few World Cups, but it will be a motivator for our league to keep some talent.

    3. Clubs embracing their rivals, rather than trying to destroy them
    - This will probably need to come from the fans, which makes it a lot more difficult.
    - Flamengo needs Fluminense, Vasco and Botafogo in the first division, Corinthians need Palmeiras to win every once in a while. The rivalry is important, but it has to be played at a higher level for everybody. It does no good for Flamengo to be playing against Chapecoense this year, rather than playing Vasco. Everybody loses, so there should be a statewide effort from the major clubs to improve the quality of football within their own state, so that this can later be pursued into a national level.

    4. State tournaments being limited to no more than 10 teams.
    - I think this is a given. Reduces number of matches, increases level of competition

    5. Pursue some European players for our league
    - Seedorf was a great acquisition, we need more of him. We need to sell the Brazilian league to other markets.
     
  10. Kaka10725

    Kaka10725 Member+

    Jun 1, 2007
    Some Solutions I can think of:

    1) Improving the Brasileirao not only competitively but financially. This kinda of go hand in hand with keeping talents from leaving too early.
    2)Be more observant to losing talents to other nations. I'm not only talking about Diego Costa but the likes of Thiago and Deco.
     
  11. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Guigs, Wikipedia has a list of Joachim Löw's titles as a manager:

    VfB Stuttgart
    DFB-Pokal: 1996–97
    DFB-Ligapokal Runner-up: 1997
    UEFA Cup Winners' Cup Runner-up: 1997–98

    FC Tirol Innsbruck
    Austrian Football Bundesliga: 2001–02

    FK Austria Wien

    Austrian Supercup: 2003

    Germany
    FIFA Confederations Cup: 3rd place in 2005 (as assistant to Jürgen Klinsmann)
    FIFA World Cup: 3rd place in 2006 (as assistant to Jürgen Klinsmann) and in 2010
    UEFA European Championship: Runner-up in 2008, semi-finalist in 2012

    He has a very modest portfolio insofar titles won on the club level. I'm not mocking the Austrian league, but I speculate it's nowhere as competitive as the Bundesliga.
     
    Guigs repped this.
  12. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I don't believe we need a big name coach. What we need is any coach who will make it clear to CBF what they need to do the job, and for CBF to say yes. Remember the Muricy Ramalho mess?

    Whoever they hire, they want someone within their parameters. But big name or not, whoever is hired needs to be given the tools and time to work towards an objective. The problem with a big name is it's actually easier forthem to hire a big name and NOT give them the tools. Cause the name will deflect some of the issues.

    If the two parties can't agree on that then we'll be hoping for the best, not working towards it.
     
  13. Ombak

    Ombak Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 19, 1999
    Irvine, CA
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Guigs' point, and he's right, is that you don't need more than a modest portfolio, you need the right person for the job and the right tools. You don't need the 4-time league winner, or the biggest name in the field.
     
    Guigs repped this.
  14. Century's Best

    Century's Best Member+

    Jul 29, 2003
    USA
    Yes. But in our situation, who would that be?
     
  15. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    @MatthausSammer will also attest that Loew has been questioned for most of his time as coach, including this WC.

    Look at Del Bosque's history. He coached at RM and his final club job was in Turkey with Beskitas. He then took a 3 year hiatus from coaching before accepting the Spanish job. What were his tools to succeed? He implemented a system and philosophy that fit the characteristics of a very good generation.
     
    MatthausSammer repped this.
  16. PMLF

    PMLF Member

    Jul 20, 2004
    Rio de Janeiro, Bra
    The clubs don't really control CBF, it's the state FAs that do and those are controlled by small clubs.


    It seems Tite is the most likely one to be hired as manager, while Gallo might manage the Olympic team.
     
  17. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    As you asking a foreigner to explains things to us ? :sneaky:

    Seriously, if you don't see a lack of really top notch talent from the midfield up in this generation, I don't know what to say...
     
    Deep Pal repped this.
  18. Mengão86

    Mengão86 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Flamengo
    Brazil
    Nov 16, 2005
    Maryland, RJ/ES/PE
    Club:
    Flamengo Rio Janeiro
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I think we have some pretty good young midfielders that weren't ready to shoulder the pressure for this WC. They aren't close to being a final product -- they are still developing (Oscar and Coutinho) or too raw at the moment (Lucas).

    As I mentioned before, it was the prior generation that really let us down. Ronaldinho, Kaká, Adriano, Robinho, etc couldn't maintain a good level of football to allow this generation to transition smoothly.

    Meanwhile, Germany is still getting production from Lahm, Schweinsteiger and heck, even Klose, who never was a craque and was contested by even the Germans. Netherlands is still getting world class production from Robben and good contributions from Kuyt, Sneijder and RvP.

    This generation will be at its peak by 2018 and will be ready to support the next generation of players that will help us go for the hexa in 2018.
     
    Deep Pal repped this.
  19. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    We have plenty, but us brazilians are the biggest culprits when it comes to demanding a name with titles instead of a coach that has been doing a great job.

    Cristovao Borges is one of those names of coaches that have been doing great but are discredited by... he hasn't won anything...

    Juninho Pernambucano is another name I would like to see, but I would actually like to see him as the President of CBF

    But beyond names, it will be impossible for us to give the tools for them to work, if we don't win the CA it will be another doom and gloom.. then Olympis at home.. another doom and gloom scenario.
     
  20. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    Yes he's been questioned, being questioned it's all fine and dandy.. he's been questioned since 2006 but their FA sticks with him and allows him to keep up the good job he's been doing...

    We don't question our coaches.. we fire them after a 26W - 6D - 7L record
     
  21. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    I guess Scolari should stay ?
     
  22. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    foreigner can give us a better perspective on what it is not to be a brazilian... We do not understand what it is to have a coach for our National team that lasts over 4 years...

    No I don't see the lack of talent because our players are all starters on the best club teams in the world.. if they had no talent guess where they WOULDN'T be playing...

    That's kind of obvious isn't it?
     
  23. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Very few of the mids and forwards are the top players in those clubs. The only clear case is Neymar, and his season was subpar because he doesn't really fit the system combined with some weak finishing. So no, it's not obvious.
     
    Deep Pal repped this.
  24. Guigs

    Guigs Member+

    Dec 9, 2011
    Club:
    Vasco da Gama Rio Janeiro
    No I didn't like the Scolari call to begin with, he was a change for the sake of change, never a long term coach. Plus once he secured JC the position without any merit I was already bothered by it, then he selects Henrique? at that point sorry he shouldn't be our coach when he picks his friends.
     
  25. celito

    celito Member+

    Palmeiras
    Brazil
    Feb 28, 2005
    USA
    Club:
    Palmeiras Sao Paulo
    Nat'l Team:
    Brazil
    Give him time ;)

    JC was actually good in this WC after a shaky 1st game.
     

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