This article should get some good discussion. Boys aside, it can make a teacher very uncomfortable when girls wear ridiculously inappropriate clothing to school. The guys always wear low jeans with their boxers completely visible. http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20040928/ap_on_re_us/duct_tape_belt Here, we have teachers who wear hip-huggers and thongs. I know, because everybody can see them. Whatcha think? I think the parent is overreacting... but I don't think it was particularly appropriate to duct tape 'em.
Girls definately get away with breaking the dress code more than boys do. Heck, cheerleading outfits which are school sanctioned break the dress code. re: the duct tape I had a good friend in high school that was a drummer and he was always knocking/banging on the desks, books, etc. and it used to drive our history teacher insane. She duct taped his hands to the desk one day during a lecture. We all thought it was funny and nobody (parent, students or teacher) got their feathers ruffled from the incident.
I don't really think the duct tape thing was going too far and the parent was definitely overreacting. We don't use duct tape though, we use rope. My (9th grade) sister and I just had an argument about this yesterday. She wore the most obscenely short skirt. I told her it wasn't dress code and it was way too short. "But my friends dress like this." One of my friend's boyfriends even came up to me asking why my sister is dressing like that and telling me how inappropriate the skirt was. Of course, she didn't get in trouble for it. The rule is supposed to be two inches above the knee. Everyone is wearing skirts barely long enough to keep their asses from showing. My school is constantly saying how tough they are about dress code and they never do anything about it really. I have friends that have gotten in trouble for low cut shirts when someone standing right next to them is wearing a shirt that is just as low cut. It's ridiculous.
I work at a college, and we have a fair number of women (and some young men) who don't really understand the concept of "appropriate" clothing. Part of the problem, I'm told, is that the "Juniors" section of the mall stores seems to specialize in "Skank-Wear" these days. But sometimes, you have classmates helping out. In a class I taught last spring, a student (we'll call her Shannon) came in a couple of minutes late wearing an outfit that any male would find distracting. I half expected some of the guys to disappear to the men's room for a few minutes... I suspect I might've if I was still 18. Anyway, as soon as she sat down, one of her friends said (so only Shannon and a few other people could hear it), "Good God, Shannon, you look like a whore," and a couple of her friends agreed. Basically, it was a matter of not knowing what's appropriate for certain situations. What's right to wear to class or to the job isn't the same as what you wear clubbing. Obviously, my college isn't going to have a dress code, but I suspect that if high schools could come up with reasonable dress codes, fairly enforced, based on the idea of appropriateness to a work/learning environment, with the clearly expressed notion that what is inappropriate at school could very well be acceptable elsewhere (a football game, a rock concert, etc), kids wouldn't have to wait until they're 22 to learn you don't wear a cocktail dress to a job interview.
On a more serious note--I'm in favor of school uniforms as well. Not only because too many young people today have no concept of modesty, but also because it evens the social scene a little bit. Maybe, with less time to worry about who looks cool and who doesn't, the little darlings will actually find time to learn something.
that's the most impressive argument I know of, too. However, friends of mine who teach in schools that require dress codes tell me that students still find other ways to enforce status rules. Still, far less time is spent worrying about student hierarchies than is wasted at places where there are no dress codes.
This argument is really, really overrated. No one cares whether you are wearing Roca Wear, American Eagle, Aero, Nike, Adidas, Fubu, Sean John, or Hollister. People also don't stop to look at your Nikes, Adidas, Pumas or your Tims. High schoolers today go to school with athletic t-shirts, homecoming t-shirts or class t-shirts. PJs are cool too. Heck, flip flips and sandles are in as well. It's not a problem. Uniforms? If clothing is such a problem, they'll find someway to make their uni's different or popular looking. Clothing are the last things that schools should pay attention to. The presentablity, interactive classes, PCs instead of Macs, new books, fair teachers, etc. are things schools should direct their attention to.
I wish I went to a school like that. This is how most of the kids I know dress. I think it's partially b/c we're too focused on actually learning to put effort into getting dressed. Jeans, a tshirt, flip flop, every morning.
This is also a fashion trend I think... It's the "preppy" look in some places. Hollister tee, kakis pants and sandles. Messy hair is also a must for guys. How about cars? If you can't "show off" your clothes, how about showing off your 1995 Eclipse with 17" rims, body kit and huge spoiler?
Not saying you're wrong about my original arguement (I've never seen any study of the problem--it's just a hunch), but I don't think that worrying about aspects of student life is a zero-sum game. Schools can worry about all the above issues you mention AND insist on some standard of dress and decorum. Frankly, part of me thinks that wearing flip flops to school IS a problem--I would like to see the students expected to take their appearance in school a little more seriously.
Why? Many of the kids today who wear flip flops are the one's who give some sort of creditablity to the schools...in other words, they're the one's in honors classes, in clubs, play sports, etc. It's just a "laid back look." If you're going to school and worry about having to look professional every single day, go to a private school where they don't even allow for you to have sideburns. They'll have 50 years of their lives waiting ahead of them where they won't be able to wear flip flops and shorts on a Monday morning. When I mentioned the other things schools can worry about, I was trying to say that they should maintain a decent school dress code and pay attention to more important things. Trust me, there are many things out there that need to be fixed that aren't.
I'm waiting for the days that my admins just say "Stop dressing like whores and here's more funding for IB labs. Yes, we're sure it wasn't meant for football."
Count me as a parent that has no problem with school uniforms for the reasons cited by bigredfutbol and Dr. Wankler. I think I've told this story on BS before but maybe not: My wife teaches at a local HS. A few years ago a bunch of girls showed up wearing T-shirts commemorating their senior trip (unofficial) to Cancun. On the front? "Senoritas looking for Margaritas". And on the back? "Dicked in Cancun". And who paid for these statements of self-worth and independent thinking? A parent. And who threatened a lawsuit when the admin tried to prevent said shirts from coming back to school? Three guesses. Shirts banned? Nope. It seems to me that a school cannot easily defend itself against even the most egregious crap unless there's a clearly defined, universally applicable uniform code in place. Ad hoc challenges to specific items of clothing are likely to involve a process that taxes resources of money, attention, and patience that are all in short supply in public schools.
Easy solution. Put a dress code in place regarding appropriateness of clothing, whore-factor etc. As the students come in in the morning, any student found violating the dress code is handed a graduation gown they wear for the rest of the day.
bungadiri, so you think that it's okay to punish 1500+ other kids because a few girls decided to break the dress code and wear an unappropriate shirt? How is that fair? Clothes can allow students to represent their uniqueness. What's fun about going to a pep rally with the entire student body and everyone is wearing the same exact thing? What if you're a Yankee fan and the Yankees just beat the Red Sox in the ALCS. Wouldn't you like to show your Yankee pride by wearing a Yankee shirt and bragging to all fo your Sox friends the every next day? I've know both sides of the story, and neither side would want to wear uniforms. So why not do what the students want? They'll have to dress uniformly later in their life. This uniform policy is like saying all cars should have a max speed of 70 MPH and should be painted black, black or black. Would you like to drive a car like that? It would prevent a lot traffic issues, the same uniforms would stop these supposed "dress code violations" that rarely ever happen.
First off--screw 'fair.' It's school, where children are forced to spend eight hours a day, five days a week, nine months a year under the supervision of adults because the government says so. There are a lot of things about the above that concern me as a parent. Telling the kids they all need to dress the same isn't one of them. Kids can express their uniqueness on their own time. They can do it in their journals, in their artwork, in letters to the school paper, however. Your analogy about the car is just silly--these are minors we're talking about, not adult car owners. I know what you're saying (and ten years ago I would have agreed with you completely), but from what I've seen of young people today, the danger of stifling their desire to 'express themselves' is, to put it charitably, a mild one.
1. What punishment? How hard on anybody is having to wear a uniform when everyone else is doing exactly the same? It's not as if the kids who go to uniform-required schools are exploding the social trauma numbers on the National Health Interview Survey. 2. There are plenty of ways to express one's uniqueness, in and out of school, that don't require purchasing and wearing mass-produced apparel. In fact, one of the biggest problems identified by studies of HS cultures is that the more "unique" a student is, the more likely s/he is to be made absolutely miserable by the rest of the population. And while clothes certainly can “allow students to represent their uniqueness,” it’s also true that clothing is a marker of conformity far more often than the reverse. 3. These dress code violations are not remotely rare. In fact, it's dress codes themselves that are increasingly rare or at least nominal, precisely because students and their parents are ready to go to war over practically any attempt to enforce same against themselves. It’s just not practical to run a system that requires the school administration to interpret what’s acceptable or not, especially if that implies assessing whether it would survive a challenge in court.
The problem is that 'maintaining a decent dress code' takes some time and effort, and as the example with the spring break t-shirts shows, there are always loopholes. So the administrator wastes time dealing with figuring out where the wiggle room is and handling questionable clothing choices on a case-by-case basis. So much for paying attention to more important things.
At my school there are some teachers that dress unappropriately according to the dress code but they don't get in trouble. The girls also tend to dress against the dress code and not get in trouble. But the guys on the other hand (particularly black) always get in trouble for having too baggy pants. Here in my district if you are found to have too baggy pants the assistant principle pulls them up and zip strips them tightly so they don't sag. This provides some comic relief when you see the wannabe thug kids with shorts that stop at the knees and don't sag. There have never been any complaints by parents for being too harsh probably because a notice is sent home at the begining of the year. Rebel flags are not allowed to be worn in school either and that actually pissed more people off than anything else considering I live in Georgia. For the past 3 years they keep saying we'll have standard dress (kahkis and school color shirt) but we never do.
Quick question, how many of you acutally have experienced both ends of the spectrum? Do you know how uncomfortable pants, dress shirt and a tie can be in an unair conditioned room with 30 other kids? How about taking a test in this same blistering hot room with a uniform on? Will that make the test any easier? I'm sure it will because instead of thinking about what to wear tomorrow, they actually paid attention to the teacher. Do you know how uncomforable it would be for those kids to have walk home on hot day? Not everyone purchases the optional pair of shorts. Why should they? These are growing people we are talking about who will not ever want to wear those same shorts outside of the school. So 20 bucks on a pair of shorts that willl be used for one and half months? Yeah, I know that in the real world people are supposed to dress formly. I have nothing wrong with that.You're representing a company and your appearance and professionalism can determine whether or not their will be a sale or deal some sort. But, those are adults, in a professional situation. Some of the arugments I made may seem kinda stupid, but they're real factors. They are issues that kids face with uniforms. These are things they will complain when they use uniforms. Are they not? No, uniforms are not the way to go. What's so bad about the way kids dress? Plain shirt, shorts and sandles? Jeans and fancy dress shirt (this is the new look..I'm sure you're happy)? Jeans and a concert shirt? Are these styles all that bad? Today's clothes styles are unapproriate, but the styles of the 60s and 70s that are coming back were okay? Uniforms are nothing but money sucking tools for private schools because they use "Dress Down Days" as chances to collect 50 cents from kids so they can dress like they normally dress. I really don't know where you get this information that the dress code isn't being followed all of the time. It happens every once in a while, but heck, doesn't that happen in the workplace or just about everywhere else? The old fashion ways of schooling are done with, and luckly so. School is supposed to be a place where students go to every day, have fun with their friends and learn and expand their minds daily, not some place where they sit at their seat and don't move a muscle otherwise their nuckles might feel unpleasent at day's end. Uniforms will not make a difference what so ever in education. If they were, then the reason why some fancy private school will score better than your average public school is because of that uniform they wear? Basically, if kids go to school and don't dress the right way, there are other people to blame, starting with those who permitted them to dress that way in the first place.
They may start to hear about it. http://kyw.com/pennsylvania/PA--Danville-Teachers-dn/resources_news_html You bring up the interesting and natural opposite to the student dress code debate. Should teachers have dress codes as well? I've got an opinion on the matter myself, but I'd like to see some of the regulars toss around their thoughts on it first (seeing as how I'm just a lowly student teacher )