http://www.boston.com/sports/soccer/articles/2006/03/14/scandinavia_option_is_getting_some_play/ interesting... it is certainly becoming a trend....although Joyce himself is not a YA....
Interesting what happened with Occean. Refresh my memory...the Mutts wanted to pony up to keep him, but the central office said it was too much for a draft choice, right?
"He will be making 60 times what the MLS offered." I'm guessing that's a slight exageration, but even so, it's pretty startling. 200K vs. 12K. It's a pretty easy call. Plus, in Joyce's case, he was only gonna be eligible for youth or transitional international status for one season then he'd be counted as an SI and he may not have stuck as a result. I know he and Occean aren't actually Yanks, but both played college ball in the US (both in DII, no less), and if they can do it, no reason the Yanks can't do it. BTW, both Occean and Joyce are big strikers, so it makes sense they'd go to Scandanavia, which traditionally favors bigger forwards.
Actually it's closer to the truth than that...IF 3 years = 600K... Although it could be read both ways...ON second reading....Never mind, yeah...it 'appears' it is about 66.6 K a season, or about 5.5 times more (per season) than he would have gotten in MLS- or about 16.6 times more "assured money -200k-" than he would have gotten in MLS-12k-....plus not having to go through the danger (in MLS) of not re-signing, not getting paid after contract ends if injured during his first season, etc.... And yes.... superdave, i believe you were pretty much spot on re: Occean
--Is that $200 grand a year, or is it over the life of the contract. If $1.3 million is one of the highest transfers in league history I can't see where they'd be committing $600,000 to a guy they just trialed.
At first, Dell'Alpa made it look as if the deal was $200,000 for 3 years, not $200,000 annually. $70K+ car+ apartment (~$110K equivalent, considering the cost of the above things and the local tax rates) would actually seem more reasonable to me for a rookie but that would not come close to the "60 times" remark. But if you add the "car+apartment" factor as worth ~ $40K annually to the quoted $200K, then the "60 times" figure is pretty dead on ($12K x 60 =$720K), assuming that MLS contract wasn't guaranteed for 3 years. McCabe is using fuzzy math here but there's no question where the bread is better buttered.
The article says a 3 year contract worth 200K, which sounds to me like it's $66,000 per year for 3 seasons.
Regardless, he also seems to feel he'll get more playing time there as well. ''More and more guys are going to go to Scandinavia. It is a great steppingstone. [Joyce] was going to play 12 or 13 games with the reserves; instead he will get 20 or 30 matches." I mean, more power to him if it works out that way. If he winds up riding the bench, I guess MLS would be glad to give him a shot as well. The Scandinavian option has been around for a while, and everyone has known it. Not really much new info in the article, but I guess it draws things out well, even if the facts are a bit smudged.
While it has been around for a good while, what is new is more players with US ties are going that route. I mean, we could field a pretty good team of American players, and former US college or US-pro based foriegn players now playing pro ball in Scandanavia. Adin Brown Robbie Russell, Nat Borchers, Dan Califf, Heath Pearce Brian West, Ramiro Corrales, Khari Stephenson, Juan Carlos Elliott Olivier Occean, Christopher Joyce The reserve league and the developmental spots are a step forward for MLS, but at the salaries they pay, there will be a lot of players who try and look elsewhere.
Exactly... I bet $50K + apartment + a KIA = Joyce and Occean signing with MLS. The "penny wise" thing has never been more a propos.
Dell'Apa needs to do a better job writing his articles than this. There are some major holes here as others have pointed out. If everything is as said, then he needs to do a better job explicating the terms. If what McCabe is saying doesn't make sense, then he needs to follow up. Otherwise, Dell'Apa is just taking dictation.
Is Scandinavia a stepping stone? So far it's seemed like a destination for the guys that Sandon listed. Has any Yank gone to Scandinavia and then on to Europe? I'm not denying the money or the competition, just wondering if it is the stepping stone that the article mentions.
Can anyone answer this? I can't think of one case off the top of my head. What evidence is there that this is as good as or better stepping stone to Europe than MLS? Or is it too soon with a sample size that is too small?
You know, now that you mention it, I can't really think of any American that has gone to Scandinavia, as a 'stepping stone' and moved on to a more prominent league. You hear this argument all the time that Norway or Denmark offers more exposure, but honestly now, where is the proof? I know many players who have made the jump out of MLS, but being a pretty close follower of EPL activity, I know very few players coming from Scandinavian leagues into EPL. I know this is one example, and maybe an extreme one, but still. I can think of only a couple, those being National team players of Norway, Denmark, or Sweden, that made this jump. I've heard of a few players going to Holland, France, or Belgium, but again, none of the Americans. It is still early to tell, but intriguing none the less.
What about him? He came out of Liverpool to MLS and back to Blackburn. No Scandinavia there. Maybe I was misunderstood. I know players have gone MLS to big European leagues. I know of none that have actually done Scandinavia to bigger European leagues
Friedel played in Turkey with Galatasaray and in Denmark with Brondby, right? As to the Scandinavian countries, Denmark seems to have the most well known players scattered in the various (Top 6) Euro leagues. Its national team members are based primarily abroad. Sweden's team is mostly EU based but it seems to have fewer known names. Then again, it has some of the bigger names like Ljundberg, Larsson and Zlatan (and watch Marcus Rosenberg ... he's an up-n-comer). The first YA in Norway's top league was Brian West, I believe, and that was only two years ago. Matt Jordan and Wayne Barrett were YAs in Denmark's SAS. And I don't recall anyone in Swedish or Finnish top divisions.
Wow you don't know the history of Brad Friedel very well. Brondby of Denmark in 1995 --- so what if he only played a handful of matches there..... Edited to add: Dang SFS beat me to the punch. After Brondby he went to Galatasaray in Turkey with one Graeme Souness as coach. Then it was the Columbus Crew, then Liverpool, then Blackburn (again with Souness). Also in there were times that he couldn't gain a work permit -- these stopped moves to Newcastle in 1995 and Sunderland in 1996. There was also earlier interest from Liverpool but they never tried to get a work permit for him.
One of the keys to Scandinavian leagues being stepping stone is that guys have to be good enough to step. There is plenty of scouting of the UMSNT A and B teams (as well as youth teams) going on by all the Euros, and frankly, we've had a pretty good number of USMNT prospects going straight to EPL/Holland/Germany at this point, both kids: Cooper, Rossi, Simek, Karby, Whitbred, Lee, O'Brien, Spector, Casey, Dolo, Bradely (despite MLS experience.) etc. and vet A-teamers: Bease, Boca, Lewis, Convey, Gibbs (fits both actually), The Scandi crowd, while having a few kids with potential (Pearce, or of non-Ams, Occean for example) is a bit heavy in "missed it by that much" MLS vets: West, Califf, Barrett etc. Nothing wrong with going there, but I don't know that you have any better shot at a Big4 than you would in Scotland, Belgium, Turkey or MLS - and perhaps less if it takes you off the USMNT radar - ala Barret and now perhaps Califf. That advantage to MLS is that you are around to fill in for the non-Euro friendlies and are more likely to get noticed by bigger Euro scouts in an England - US merch match than in an Aarhaus frost fest.
Shaun Bartlett , though not American (South African)...made the jump from the MLS to Sweden (not sure which club) to the EPL with Charlton.
If the money is so much better in Scandinavia, why does it have to be a stepping stone rather than a destination? I suppose it might make more financial sense to stay in MLS, get scouted by Arena, play for the U.S. and someday get a big payoff based on World Cup performance, but precious few Yanks have interrupted surefire USA careers by moving to Norway or Sweden or someplace like that to this point.