Rumor: Say it ain't so Stevie!

A brief scan of a couple Hannover forums didn't yield anything. Maybe one of our German friends can find something.

 

I've yet to see anything specifically about Steve leaving, but H96 have been linked to about 9 right backs in the last 3-4 months.

 

That's just the problem - we can't find one. Of course, the longer Steve stays hurt, the more chance that someone will be able to take the spot.

 

I'd like to see a Dolo transfer to the Sounders this summer.

 

There was one article in the papers a few weeks ago where Stevie said (after a lot of criticism about him in the press) that he would go if 96 felt he held them back.
As I said in the past, imo Stevie gets a lot of unwarranted criticism. For some reason the other players who have been with the club for "ever" like Lala and Stajner can't do no worong and are the darlings of the fans and the media but Stevie is always considered not good enough.
It's not like they didn't try to give him competition but the other RBS always turned out worse.

Stevie is solid, nothing spectacular and he might not be the player to get Hannover to the heights our managment dreams about but he's hardly the problem.

Our main problem is the midfield, CBs and LBs.

 

being a good outside back is maybe the hardest thing in soccer. Most who have enough skill are not athletic enough. Most who are athletic enough, do not have enough skill.

 

It's because he's short. He's an easy target for criticism.

 

Not to mention you need the speed to keep up with those flashy wingers.

Cherundolo is one of the most underrated American players ever, IMO.

 

Agreed.

If I was doing an all-time best American lineup, based on position, he'd be my starter at RB. He's the best at that position we've ever had and I say that as someone who is a huge fan of Frankie Hejduk and the potential Marvell Wynne shows.

 

Absolutely true.

I think I've only ever seen Stevie play one truly poor match in a USMNT uniform. He's never been particularly flashy or a show-stopper, but has arguably been one of our most consistent performers for the last several years.

I've read mumblings of Hannover looking for new RBs for the better part of the last two years, but they always seem to stick with Cherundolo when healthy.

Fräulein96, I appreciate your comments about Cherundolo, as you are closer to the club than just about any of us.

 

It might actually be the easiest position in soccer.

It is one of the few positions players many players who can't cut the grade at other positions get switched to if they don't prove to have the ball skills or decision making for other field positions.

Decent athletes with limited ball skills have a shot of making it at outside back when their technical skills or decision making hold them back from other positions. It is quite common for center backs, center mids, wingers, and even forwards to end up changing positions to outside back. But it is more uncommon to see outside backs to get switched to these positions.

That players are sometimes either not athletic or not skilled enough is rather a factor of the position not being as valued as other field positions. Outside backs often have less impact on games, and when teams are built more importance is placed on impact center backs, central midfielders, center forwards, and then usually even wingers ahead of outside backs.

That is not a knock on outside backs, but just a fact that the position is less demanding and often has less of an impact than the other field positions.

 

is an outside back someone who plays as a left back/right back?

If so i think its definately one of the more difficult positions in soccer imo. Especially in the Eglish game they are incredibly important. they have to be able to defend, attack, cover cb's as and when required. incredibley important.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2009/mar/25/the-question-full-backs-football

check this out sweetness

 

Outside backs are certainly important, but in relation to other positions are the field they are less important.

Title contendors in England and Spain have starting players like Arbeloa, Aurelio, Marcelo/Heinze, Sylvinho, even Wes Brown or Rafael. These are good players certainly, but it is a drop in quality when compared to their other teammates in the starting XI.

However, the original point was in relation to the difficulty in playing outside back. No position in football in easy. Far from it. But the level of difficulty at outside back is less than other positions because of the technical, positional and decision making required at outside back is lower than other positions. I think it is telling that so many players switch from different positions to play outside back, but outside backs rarely switch to other positions except outside midfield.

Thanks for linking to the article as well. I'll read it when I have a bit more time and comment on it.

 

No problem.

I look forward to your reply

 

Compare to Martin Skertl? What about Alves, Botswanga, Cole, Sagna and Evra? They stack up quite well to their teammates.

 

I think it is a somewhat interesting article, but that he is way off in the points he is trying to make. I'm also not really convinced he actually believes his own headline, but rather that he is explaining the increased significane of fullbacks.

His initial assessment of the Spain vs Russia match proves nothing imo.

Using this argument I could just as easily point to the Russia vs Holland match to say that is proof that a withdrawn forward is the most important position in the world because Arshavin found the space he needed between defense and midfield to run Holland ragged. Or to instead point out the significance defensive midfielders because if Holland's weakness there. I could also point out that I disagree that Spain was better off without Villa, and that Arshavin was completely exhausted that game, and along with having a player like Senna in the team, which Netherlands completely lacked, they were able to do a much better job in controlling Arshavin.

The author then claims out that the World Cup has been won by with the best attacking fullbacks and feels this is somehow proof that fullbacks are the most important position. Sagna and Evra were the best fullback pairing at the last Euro's and how far did France go? How about Barcelona winning the 2007 Champions league with Oleguer and Van Brockhurst? If the author was really serious about this theory he should have actually looked at more competitions than a few World Cups and making a bizarre blankett statement about the best "attacking fullbacks" win tournaments. I don't think you will honestly find many people out there that feel fullbacks are more important than strikers, central midfielders or centerbacks. The importance of the spine of the team outweights the flanks.

He then goes on to make some statements about how fullbacks and wingers have played crucial roles in games. Well duh, that's obvious. It's quite easy to find examples of how any position on the field has been important at some stage. Goals have to come from somewhere after all.

I like a lot of the historical aspects the author brings up. I feel that fullbacks are becoming more important in the attack. But they have a long ways to go until they are as important as the spine of the team.

Edit: I also like how he brought up players like Kuyt and Park. I wish this was something we discussed more on our USMNT forums because it shows the importance of graft and hard work on the flanks and that teams often chose to sit world class attacking talents in exchange for more graft and possession on the flanks. It seems we often get so caught up in idealic attacking formations we forget that the game is played two ways.

 

The fullbacks you named are certainly very good players. No doubt about that.

My point is that you wouldn't find players of that quality (Arbeloa, Aurelio, Sylvinho, Marcelo/Heinze, Rafael) in the spine of the team at any title contender.

Look how Arsenal are struggling this year when missing their spine in central midfield. Look at how United are still going strong while Wes Brown all season, who was the player many put in their starting XI for team of the season.

Also, you are mistaken to include Skertel is the same quality as the names of the fullbacks I mentioned above. He is a very good centerback, and I think that kind of shows my point that you are forced to include his name.

 

Very fair decution on the link that was posted, however....

'Now of course, to an extent, that is coincidence. Nobody wins anything simply by having a pair of good full-backs, but what the trend highlights is the importance of full-backs to the tactical side of the game'

Im not sure how many games you watch of the EPL, ( i dont really watch many other leagues tbh, the odd La Liga games here and there) but Villa are a great example, our full backs, Bouma (hes injured) Shorey (MoN has lost faith in him) Young (playing at left back for most of season).

When we have played NRC at right back and Young at left back you have weakend the side incredibly, regardless of how strong the spine of the team is, very good teams with very good wingers will exploit that. For example, Ashley Young tore Zakora apart when we played Tottenham at home, we could have arguably been atleast two up in the first half.

A full backs defensive duties are very very important and extremly difficult to pull off well, i.e. do i force the winger out wide, does he pose a threat from cutting inside, if I commit myself to a forward play will i be exposed subsequently leaving my centre backs under pressure.

Also nowadays im not sure if you see this but the full backs are also extremley good at attacking, almost taking on the wingers job as it were, Bosingwa, Clichy etc etc, they are on the overlap, they cut inside to provide greater attacking options, its definately a difficult position, many games are won on what the full backs can do, if you have two full backs that dont know what they are doing against the likes of Messi, Ronaldo, etc etc, they will exploit that and you will loose the game.

On the flip side, if you have two extremely good full backs Neville, Evra, they can win you games with defensive play and attacking play, how many times has Evra broken through the oppositions line on the overlapping run to put a cross in for Ronaldo or who ever to head home.

If you have a strong a spine, then yes there is allways a chance you will do well, but i think its foolhardy to write of the full backs a lesser position/lesser importance of a TEAM game.

I happen to think a deep lying attacker ala Gerrard in recent games has proven that, that position/mentality can be very influential, just like the full back position.

If you look at the attributes that full backs nowadays need, speed, stamina, crossing ability, passing, tackling, heading, positioning, arguably, it is the most demanding.

I think to draw comprisons about the full back position not being as important is silly, the spine of the ensures fluid play with a midfield that can pass the ball.
The spine for me is

Goalkeeper
Centre backs
Centre Midfielders
Strikers

So according to you that renders 4 players as not really needed.

I think you need to watch more games at a higher level to see the importance and influence fullbacks can have in the game.

Hope this post made sense...i havent had much time to re write it so apologise if it reads abit off the point/staggered.

 

I gues syou haven't seen Raphael the young brazilian at Man Utd. Check out his goal against Arsenal on You Tube

 

Well let me start of by saying that I feel that every position in soccer is important and that fullbacks can lose games.

I do watch Villa quite a bit. Bouma was excellent last year and you are missing him. I have also seen NRC struggle at right back. I won't disagree that missing important players at fullback will hurt a team. Just that it will hurt teams less than at other important positions. Despite the loss of fullbacks Villa has still had a great season and while you most likely won't qualify for the Champs league as your team is running on fumes, compare that to how Arsenal has played when losing Fabregas and Flamini.

I think you actually made a point in my favor when describing the importance of fullbacks.

Exactly. Teams must have a strong spine. With a strong spine you have a chance. With good fullbacks you still need a strong spine.

Exactly. Imagine if Carew had dominated Woodgate the way Young toyed with Zokora. You would have been two up. There are more safety nets for fullbacks even if they are having an off day. If centerbacks do that it's going to have a more negative impact. If centermids are dominated their team won't have any possession and their attack will be starved of the ball and the defense will be under constant pressure. If forwards are horrible scoring will be a massive challenge.

I will disagree here as well. Absolutely no way is fullback the most demanding position. I'd put a weak player out at fullback way before putting him at goalkeeper, centerback, central midfield, or striker.

Also, fullbacks don't need all the attributes you listed above although that is of course ideal. Even some of the better fullbacks lack some of those attributes. How about Wes Brown? He is a poor crosser and is certainly not the best passer. He was arguably the best right back in the league last year. A player lacking in key attributes you mentioned is still able to get into the starting XI with the most dominant team last year. I could also mention Rafael here and his more than suspect defending and positioning. He is so dependent on Ferdinand and Vidic to boss him around, organize him, and cover his ass when he gets caught out.

The skills you listed above don't compare to what is required for players in the center of the pitch imo. We can possibly discuss them a bit more in the future. But I'm curious, where would you place the importance of fullbacks? What positions would you place ahead of them and behind them?

Also, please don't tell me I need to watch more football. That is a bit insulting, and I feel I watch enough to be able to back up my view here.

 

Care to elaborate how i backed up your plan. You were basically saying that a strong spine is all you need. I am in no way saying that great full backs are all you need. I am merely pointing out that you discard what full backs can put into the team. I did also say that on the flip side full backs can loose you games, so i wasnt just talking about how they win you games.

It doesnt matter how good you think the centre backs are, if the winger is beating the full back every time, probability says that the striker will get his head on a few ( if the striker is good he will put a higher chance of his chances away).

'I will disagree here as well. Absolutely no way is fullback the most demanding position. I'd put a weak player out at fullback way before putting him at goalkeeper, centerback, central midfield, or striker'

Rieras goal from reina's kick whos fault was that? I think it was the full backs, why because he was out of position, why because he wasnt a full back. So if you exploit the weakness (reo-cokers poor full back positioning) they can nay will ship goals too, Barry unfourtunately doesnt posses the pace to be a full back, he tryed to cover but couldnt get there/ or didnt anticipate that the ball would get there as i feel we should have dealt with the ball over in the fisrt place.

Again you fail to see my point, is it as mentally demanding as a goalkeeper, no. However it is well up there in the physical demanding than say a centreback, they bomb up and down the right and left side all game.

Why would you put a weaker player at full back before any of the aforementioned positions. If you do so you risk exposing the full back thus giving the attacking team an advantage. Example, if jonny evans ever had to play left back for his club, do you not think that opposing teams would look to exploit that by playing the majority of 'plays' down the left wing? (before you say jonny evans has never played left back, he played his first game for northern ireland at left back, just as he did the other day against poland.)

I could also mention Rafael here and his more than suspect defending and positioning. He is so dependent on Ferdinand and Vidic to boss him around, organize him, and cover his ass when he gets caught out.

Does any of that have to do with the age of Rafael? I would use the term boss him around more like nurture him in what to do in situations, you all have to learn your trade somehow, you dont expect an 18y/o to jump straight in and play everything perfectly do you?

Also, fullbacks don't need all the attributes you listed above although that is of course ideal. Even some of the better fullbacks lack some of those attributes

Ok but if you look at the top end full backs, Daniel Alves, Sergio Ramos, Patrice Evra etc etc, they have got all of them, daniel alves can take a mean free kick too, just like a certain Roberto Carlos.

Nicky shorey was one of Readings best players the year they went down absolutely fantastic. Unfourtunately hes not good enough for a team pushing for continental qualification. Why, because hes not good in the air, and sometimes he is suspect to getting caught out.

Ergo i think that MoN made an error in judgement here and i think was desperate to sign a new left back. Though shorey had a good season before and thought ill get him he looks good.

Exactly. Teams must have a strong spine. With a strong spine you have a chance. With good fullbacks you still need a strong spine.

You are correct here, but i dont think i said that having great full backs and a weak spine will win you games.

I dont really agree in labelling positions in order of anything they are all as hard to do as eachother, but at the risk of not backing up my arguement;

In order of 'importance'.

1, Goalkeeper- the job is a special one it can be dangerous and it can be rewarding aswell as cruel, definately the most mentaly demanding on the pitch.

2, Centre Mid - Mr utility, should in my opinion be able to defend and attack and provide moments of brilliance that can open a chance or split the defence.

3, full backs- Is the gel that holds the team togther in my opinion, they can link defence to attack, provide more attacking options, but can also prevent a opposition build up play and counter attack by defending the third well, can be used to draw space for the mid field to pull the strings, its not wise to let a full back gallop past you and not follow his run.

4, Centre Backs- The libero can start attacking play, stop attacking play and with good distribution skills can as mentioned mount a counter attack. Also has the ability to mark a striker out the game.

5, Wingers- Are the bridge form centre mids to attack, very effective when employed against weaker full backs, they can be used to spread play and create space for other players by making the players shift towards the ball as it were, the pendulum motion (or so i was taught).

6 Striker- last but no means least, Can get you goals, sure, can set up others for goals sure, but other than that there isnt much else required from them, they have very little defensive duty (except crouch, john carew, heskey most go back to defend free kicks etc) and they do there fair bit of closing down in the oppositions half, but how many times have we heard pundits say that rooney doesnt need to be there etc etc. The laws of probability also says that if you give enough chances to a striker he should put atleast one away.

Just that it will hurt teams less than at other important positions. Despite the loss of fullbacks Villa has still had a great season

Yes we did until reo coker played as best as he could for as long as he could at a position that he isnt the best at. O that and Gabby not scoring.

IMO, The most specialised and most difficult position to play is goalkeer. But you cant discard fullbacks as not being atleast as influential as another position.

O and FYI im not sure what standard you are watching but I said watch more higher standard games.