Saudi Arabia Pro League 18-19 assignments and discussion [R]

Discussion in 'Referee' started by balu, Nov 11, 2018.

  1. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    Gotta love Google Translate:
    o_O
     
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  2. balu

    balu Member

    Oct 18, 2013
    December 1

    Al Fateh 0 - 2 Al Taawon
    Pawel Raczkowski (POL), Radoslav Siejka (POL), Michal Obukowicz (POL), Danilo Grujic (CRO)

    Al Batin 1-3 Al Raed
    Kevin Blom (NED), Rob van de Ven (NED), Rogier Hoenig (NED), Edwin van de Graaf (NED)
     
  3. balu

    balu Member

    Oct 18, 2013
    December 2

    Al Nassr - Al Wahda
    Sandro Ricci (BRA), Emerson de Carvalho (BRA), Marcelo Van Gasse (BRA), Wagner do Nascimento Magalhaes (BRA)

    Al Ittihad - Al Hazm
    Svein Oddvar Moen (NOR), Kim Haglund (NOR), Magnus Lundberg (NOR), Simon Lee Evans (WAL)

    Is Ricci the first South American to do a match there?
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I believe so. A few more weeks and I think you’ll see more names from new areas.
     
  5. balu

    balu Member

    Oct 18, 2013
    December 6

    Al Batin - Al Feiha
    Simon Lee Evans (WAL), Lewiss Edwards (WAL), Ian Bird (WAL), Ammar Ashkanani (KUW)

    Al Quadisiya - Al Ittifaq
    Viktor Kassai (HUN), Gyorgy Ring (HUN), Vencel Toth (HUN), Peter Solymosi (HUN)

    Al Shabab - Ohod
    Pavel Kralovec (CZE), Ivo Nadvornik (CZE), Tomas Mokrusch (CZE), Ivan Bebek (CRO)

    Al Ittihad - Al Faisaly
    Ovidiu Hategan (ROU), Sebastian Gheorghe (ROU), Octavian Sovre (ROU), Sebastian Coltescu (ROU)

    Another UCL matchday. No new names, yet.
     
  6. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You give Evans too much credit. He's probably done an early round UCL qualifier. But never close to the UCL itself.

    Does your source have the VARs? Because they are being flown in, too.
     
  7. balu

    balu Member

    Oct 18, 2013
    Nah, I know. 3 out of 4 is close enough ;)

    No, I got the assignments from Soccerway. If you know of a source with VARs, let me know and I'd be happy to post the information from there.
     
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  8. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's not that important. Looks like three Portuguese VARs and then Marciniak is with Kassai.

    I think it only becomes noteworthy if the VARs expand beyond Europe.
     
  9. balu

    balu Member

    Oct 18, 2013
    How likely is it that we will see an American referee at some point?
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Depends who you ask. Also depends how you define American.

    I mean, technically you already saw Conger (New Zealand FIFA, American by birth). But rumors are there is another official who has been asked.
     
  11. balu

    balu Member

    Oct 18, 2013
    December 7

    Al Wahda - Al Taawon
    Joao Capela (POR), Nelson Moniz (POR), Alvaro Mesquita (POR), Vitor Ferreira (POR)
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Let me amend my above answer.

    Yes.
     
  13. balu

    balu Member

    Oct 18, 2013
    December 8

    Al Hilal - Al Nassr
    Nestor Pitana (ARG), Hernan Maidana (ARG), Juan Pablo Belatti (ARG), Fernando Echenique (ARG)

    Al Fateh - Al Hazm
    Wilmar Roldan (COL), Eduardo Diaz (COL), Wilmar Navarro (COL), Gustavo Murillo (COL)

    Al Raed - Al Ahli
    Svein Oddvar Moen (NOR), Kim Haglund (NOR), Magnus Lundberg (NOR), Ivan Bebek (CRO)

    Pitana, Ricci, and Roldan are probably the three top CONMEBOL referees right now, and they have all worked in Saudi Arabia within the past week. Moen is still there, with Bebek again fourth official.
     
  14. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Ricci has actually retired in Brazil, from what I understand. He’s just collecting some cash doing a few games in Saudi Arabia.

    Also, you are forgetting Cunha, who has to rank above Roldan at minimum.
     
  15. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    By the way, Evans is leaving the FIFA list one year early. Whether or not that has to do with his decision to take so many games in Saudi Arabia is unclear, but certainly seems probable. He’s working very few—if any—games in Wales and Europe.
     
  16. balu

    balu Member

    Oct 18, 2013
    Cunha is doing the Copa Libertadores final tomorrow. Let's see what happens after that :)
     
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  17. HoustonRef

    HoustonRef Member

    May 23, 2009
    And I thought he did an excellent job.
     
  18. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe. He certainly managed the match decently well, which in this setting probably is the only thing that counts. But this decision for PIADM—particularly with VAR—was baffling:

    https://streamable.com/i3tw2
     
  19. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    That's extraordinary! I have said a lot of hyperbole on this board over the years, but that honestly might be one of the most spineless and cowardly decisions I've ever seen.

    If you don't want to call a penalty kick, fine. Since the beginning of the sport, goal keepers have practically been given the leeway to wipe out attackers after they get the shot off. It would be perfectly in tune with the tradition and history of the game.

    But to call a high kick on the attacker there. Extraordinary.

    I honestly though that VAR would eliminate or start to reduce the amount of "look the other way" decisions that we see so often at the professional game. Referees basically just not having the courage to make affirmative decisions.

    I would think being in a room isolated from the players, fans, and coaches would eliminate some of the pressures that influence consciously and sub-consciously referees from making big match changing decisions,

    From watching the MLS Cup last night to this, it seems that isn't the case at all. It's the same old same old all the time.

    How can anyone say that isn't a penalty kick via VAR? What more do you need?

    It seems like VAR is just for catching offside decisions that the human eye can't possibly catch.
     
  20. balu

    balu Member

    Oct 18, 2013
    December 12

    Ohod - Al Hilal
    Svein Oddvar Moen (NOR), Kim Haglund (NOR), Magnus Lundberg (NOR), Mark Clattenburg (ENG)

    Moen busy in Saudi Arabia, Clattenburg back in action as fourth official.
     
  21. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Moen and Evans have essentially traded in their European careers for Saudi ones. Moen is still active in Norway, from what I understand, but he's getting no UEFA assignments. No idea what--if anything--Evans is doing domestically.

    Get excited for the next set of appointments!
     
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  22. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    I’ll be honest with you... I don’t see this decision as completely outrageous. I buy PIADM, especially in the context of this game.

    The high foot towards the goalkeeper is happening before the goalkeeper comes through the attacker. I’m not saying it’s the best decision in the world, but I wouldn’t call it cowardly. I’d call it prudent.

    On the other hand, for the good of the game, even just for optics purposes, I think a VAR OFR would have been beneficial.
     
  23. balu

    balu Member

    Oct 18, 2013
    December 13

    Al Ittifaq - Al Wahda
    Mark Clattenburg (ENG), Paul Robinsin (NIR), George Argyropoulos (NIR), Ovidiu Hategan (ROU)

    Al Fateh - Al Faisaly
    Szymon Marciniak (POL), Pawel Sokolnicki (POL), Tomasz Listkiewicz (POL), Mariusz Zlotek (POL)

    Clattenburg back in the thick of things. Hategan and Marciniak, among the top European referees not in UCL action this week, find themselves in the Middle East once more.
     
  24. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This attitude seems to be catching hold in some places and it just doesn't square with the reality of VR procedures as written.

    On paper, an OFR for a subjective decision should only occur if the VAR tells the referee that he has made a clearly wrong decision. If an OFR occurs, that means the VAR (a qualified FIFA referee) has already said "I think your decision was clearly wrong." So if you go down the path you're suggesting, it would take the VAR saying "hey, come look at this obvious penalty that you missed" and then the CR to say "oh no no no, for game control purposes I'm going with an IFK." It's a can of worms that no one wants to open. And it's a way to add that unnecessary delay that so many said VR would never do.

    All that said, given the amount of times that referees stuck with their decision despite conducting an OFR in the World Cup (and elsewhere) and the growing myth that re-watching a play via VAR to sell a decision is a good thing, I fear this is a place where we are going. There's very little education of the soccer public around the idea that an OFR is only supposed to occur if the VAR has already said "I believe the decision was clearly wrong."
     
  25. fischietto

    fischietto Member

    Apr 13, 2018
    I completely respect the fact this does correspond with the procedures, but I think that's the way we're going.

    The fans are always going to say: "What's the point of VAR! He didn't even go look at it again" And I know they are uneducated and their opinion is nearly useless, but these are the consumers of the game at this level.

    Note that Rizzoli (Serie A Designator) went on Sky Italia a few times to explain VAR on a televised special. He said specifically he wants the referees to go look again at potential handballs themselves, for optics purposes. How is this consistent with the protocol, then?

    And how can you reckon that sentiment with the complete absence of OFR for contact-style penalties. Why the double standard?
     

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