Same here. And the other reason I don't support Antifa is that their definition of fascism is overly broad. Basically, anyone wearing a MAGA cap or carrying an American flag could be targeted on the basis that they're fascist.
"Superdave does not live in a world based on reality". Oh what fun are declarative sentences where it's all about "the one never to be questioned correct concept to rule them all", and Dave The Super is all about fun.
This thread is worth a read for the more reasonable people around here to understand why this has become a big issue which is now getting national and international attention (there was Chinese TV news report on it today): https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1164237239318003713.html
] 1. Not all antifa cover their faces in fact most do not. The media likes to focus in on those who do but this is what antifa generally looks like: More dancing under the Morrison Bridge - most have since gotten back on the sidewalk. #PortlandProtest pic.twitter.com/5xawSA921G— Tristan Fortsch (@tristanCF) August 17, 2019 2. The reason some antifa cover their faces is due to the use of pepper spray and other chemical agents the fascists have used (that black bus you saw in portland had white supremacists spraying pepper spray out the windows as they drove through a crowd of people). Another reason is because the fascists dox people by taking pictures of their faces and finding out home addresses etc through reverse image searches. 3. A very good explanation which answers your questions is in this podcast, where you will hear an everyday antifa person (a middle aged lawyer lady) debunk a lot of the crap Fox News spews out about antifa: https://nerdfarmpod.com/2019/08/08/the-seattle-sounders-mls-and-the-need-for-courage-against-fascism-john-murphy-tacoma-against-nazis-and-shannon-mcminimee-lawyer-for-the-puget-sound-john-brown-gun-club 4. Some of the pictures you see with people wearing all black may or may not be antifa. There have been cases where the white supremacists have dressed in that stuff to initiate violence which then gets blamed on antifa typically this goes upreported unless an arrest is made More counter-protesters than rally-goers turned out for the God, Guns and Liberty rally Saturday, Aug. 10 in Eugene. The one person arrested appears to be affiliated with right-wing groups but dressed at the rally in black Antifa-like garb. https://t.co/xRMO10kAU2— Camilla Mortensen (@EugWklyCamilla) August 11, 2019 It's cowardly but its an age old tactic racists in this country have used going back to people dressing up as native americans. 5. Of those who ARE antifacist and who dress in black and mask up they are actually called Black Bloc. That's not antifa, that's not a group, its a tactic. One which has been around in protests going back to the 1970s and was seen at the anti-WTO protests in 1999 in Seattle and the G20 protests in Pittsburgh. Ironically some of the same people who are so opposed to antifa today supported Black Bloc tactics in those earlier protests 20 & 10 years ago (Alex Jones for example because it was against the 'globalists'). Here is a documentary on the G20 protests in Pittsburgh: So basically we have a bunch of hypocrites who cheered this stuff on when it was against Obama and company now condemning it when its against Trump's coddling of white nationalists and the goon squads wearing his campaign slogan (Proud Boys, Patriot Prayer, Identity Europa) assaulting soccer fans on the street in Seattle or racially abusing Andres Flores and the player's family in Portland. 6. This nation was founded on protests and WWII was fought against those who advocated white nationalism. The fact that we CURRENTLY have people in government who favor white nationalism doesn't change what this country is SUPPOSED to be about. Protesting against an ideology of death which committed genocide and is carrying out mass murder through mass shootings aimed at ethnic and religious minorities, immigrants, lgbtq+ and women currently is not just the right thing to do, it's TRUE patriotism in the face of tyranny. Stefan Frei said it best: By the way: There is a detailed timeline of events which lead us to where we are today here: http://aunitedfront.cloudaccess.host
WWII was also fought against the Japanese. For 14 years, raucous fans of the Portland Timbers have engaged in a sentimental tradition: unfurling a large flag depicting a yellow-and-green sunburst, to honor a supporter killed in a traffic accident. That is, until last month—when the Timbers Army waved that flag in Los Angeles in front of a shocked group of Korean Americans. Those L.A. fans, gathered in Banc of California Stadium to root for Major League Soccer's Los Angeles Football Club, noticed the resemblance the "Sunshine Flag" bears to the Japanese Rising Sun—the war flag of the Imperial Japanese Navy. For many South and East Asians, that flag is a symbol of World War II atrocities against countries that include China and North and South Korea . . . https://www.wweek.com/news/2018/08/...-two-city-debate-over-cultural-insensitivity/ White supremacy was not the only form of racism against which we fought in WWII. The question is why the Timbers Army is suddenly so Woke to one variety while so asleep for over a decade to another.
Blame the Euro-centric way in which WWII history is taught in the US. It focuses mostly on the European theater. The main takeaway is the Timbers Army (someone I normally am loathe to praise) did the right thing as soon as they knew it was wrong to fly that flag. That's more than we can say for MLS who has now gone against fans and players who have been victimized by white supremacists and the MLS Players Association which supports the #AUnitedFront movement.
I did a little (not a lot) of research on that flag when the issue came up, partially because I wear a shirt with the original version on it, which was created by a Japanese player as a fundraiser for earthquake victims. It strikes me that in the other news thread we're discussing how the Betsy Ross flag being seen as racist because a small number of racists groups used it at one time and calling that position ridiculous, but in this thread we're taking the TA to task for using a modified form of that Japanese flag that a small number of groups have spoken out against because it’s considered racist. Why should the TA flag be considered racist but not the Betsy Ross flag? Or is it ok for the Japanese player to use the war flag and Americans to use the Betsy Ross flag even though a few people have issue with it because it’s their history but it’s not ok for the TA to use a modified form of the flag because they’re not Japanese? Or in the end is it really both sides playing 'gotcha'?
As with most controversies, there are more than two sides to the issue at hand. -- MLS has set out to ban political speech (while hypocritically promoting political speeches). -- The Timbers Army wants to wave the Iron Front flag (while evidently being fine with suppression of others). -- Lots of people want "no politics" in the stadium, whether favored by MLS, on the one hand, or any subset of fans, on the other (in an illusory if good faith effort to ensure that soccer is only about soccer). -- The Korean LA fans who objected to the Japanese war flag were likely legitimately offended because of the atrocities perpetrated against Koreans by the Japanese Empire (I highly doubt they would be mollified if only Japanese players wore the flag). -- I, perhaps alone, am in favor of everyone waving whatever flag they want (but reserve the right to call out the hypocrisy of those who wave them). There are likely other takes, as well.
Let me come back to a point I've made before: it depends on the definition of "political." I don't think singing the national anthem is political, or having military week or month is political, or doing childhood cancer awareness is political. So I don't think they are practicing hypocrisy.
Reading this thread, I am reminded of my Uncle Billy. He was a lovely man, but he extremely anti fascist. By his own admission he was willing to use violence to fight it. He once told me a story of how he traveled 1000s of miles to attend a major Anti fascist rally. At said rally he fully admits to killing some fascists. One of which he said he beat to death after his gun jammed. He also said a lot of other Anti Fascist died that day. But they felt they were in the right to do what they did. I can't remember what the rally was called but I know it really kicked on June 6th, 1944. It just reminds me of a time when we kicking the S**t out of fascists was uncontroversial and damn near a national past time. And whilst I am not advocating violence as a means to combat it, the tacit acceptance I see of it with some of the people posting is utterly disgusting. Some of you really need to go have a long hard look at what you are saying. The reality is as and upper middle class white dude I am largely unaffected by this rise is white nationalism and fascism. But there are a lot of people who ARE affected by it. And some of you might do well to imagine yourself as some of those people, and what it means to be jewish when people are carrying torches chanting blood and soil and jews will not replace us. Or MAGA hat wearing people cheering putting children in cages as a means of punitive retribution.
Of course to get to that point we had to get past the point where this was actually controversial (published in 1941, before we entered the war) Sadly we apparently need Cap to punch a fascist again
I don't know who's right here, but "rules for acronyms" is kind of adorable. Spend a minute poring over NATO acronyms or Latin American football/political org. acronyms, as but two examples, and you will find that the rules are: there are no rules - it's only a matter of how stupid-clever you want to sound.
Ya think? #AUnitedFront The fight with MLS over the inclusion of the word “political” in the Code of Conduct has drawn a lot of attention. While we’ve recently focused on the banning of the Iron Front symbol, in reality the issue is much larger and potentially more insidious. (thread)— Timbers Army (@timbersarmy) September 6, 2019
I'm not sure I follow the thread correctly. The word political in the code of conduct is there, but nothing of the sort has been identified by MLS or the Timbers FO from past actions or recent quotes from executives that they will be stopping any of the messages shown over the years. The Timbers Army has done well to walk that line. What has lead them to believe their trust in MLS/Timbers FO is going to be lost? A singular flag? That's it?