Saturday 12 Jan 2019

Discussion in 'MLS: News & Analysis' started by Stuart95, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. Stuart95

    Stuart95 Member+

    Mar 11, 2012
    Stafford, VA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2019 MLS SuperDraft Grades
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/01/11/2019-mls-superdraft-grades

    UCLA's Frankie Amaya Goes No. 1 to FC Cincinnati in 2019 MLS SuperDraft
    https://www.si.com/soccer/2019/01/11/mls-draft-2019-picks-results-live-stream-superdraft

    MLS SuperDraft the perfect illustration of American problem
    https://mlsmultiplex.com/2019/01/11/mls-superdraft-perfect-illustration-american-problem/

    The SuperDraft will become superfluous if it doesn’t evolve

    https://theathletic.com/763661/2019/01/11/the-superdraft-will-become-superfluous-if-it-doesnt-evolve/

    Dispatches From The United Soccer Coaches Convention: Day 3
    https://www.whatahowler.com/2019-un...XXmntHbPOTytVrStifrRAyBq6xGI0-PVWrHWvCM2PreQI

    Atlanta United, Darren Eales win big at 2018 MLS Club and Executive Awards
    https://www.dirtysouthsoccer.com/20...win-big-at-2018-mls-club-and-executive-awards

    The Philly Way: The Philadelphia Union plant their flag
    https://ussoccerplayers.com/2019/01/the-philly-way-the-philadelphia-union-plant-their-flag.html

    Soccer: MLS award named after Schmid, LAFC loses Feilhaber, Amaya top pick in SuperDraft
    https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/la-sp-soccer-schmid-lafc-galaxy-20190111-story.html

    FC Cincinnati's Sassano on MLS SuperDraft haul: We got what we wanted
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...ano-mls-superdraft-haul-we-got-what-we-wanted

    MLS SuperDraft: Colorado adds Denver forward Shinyashiki, two defenders
    https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/co...dds-denver-forward-shinyashiki-two-defenders/

    MLS Draft: Tucker Bone balances soccer dream, military commitment
    https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/ml...-superdraft-airforce-falcons-military-soccer/

    How Siad Haji immigrated from Kenya, fell through U.S. Soccer's cracks and still rose to No. 2 in MLS SuperDraft
    http://www.espn.com/soccer/major-le...acks-and-still-rose-to-no-2-in-mls-superdraft

    From ballboy to MLS SuperDraft, Akeem Ward reflects on DC United selection
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...draft-akeem-ward-reflects-dc-united-selection

    Orlando City wanted draft pick Santiago Patino as a Homegrown: ‘The league did us wrong on this one’
    https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/orlando-city-sc/orlando-city-santiago-patino-luiz-muzzi/

    Portland Timbers linked with New England Revolution outcast Claude Dieln
    https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/portland-timbers/portland-timbers-revolution-claude-dielna/

    Stejskal: How Houston, Colorado completed the Marlon Hairston deal
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...uston-colorado-completed-marlon-hairston-deal

    What Osvaldo Alonso's signing means for Seattle and Minnesota
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019/01/11/what-osvaldo-alonsos-signing-means-seattle-and-minnesota

    Report: Montreal Impact chasing Ligue 1 striker with former Arsenal ties?
    https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2019...t-chasing-ligue-1-striker-former-arsenal-ties

    Celtic agree deal for American college soccer starlet
    https://en.onefootball.com/celtic-set-to-beat-rangers-to-american-college-soccer-starlet/

    Orlando City B secures loan of three players from Atlético Paranaense, roster set
    https://www.prosoccerusa.com/mls/orlando-city-sc/orlando-city-b-roster/

    Liga MX-style schedule would serve MLS better
    http://www.startribune.com/liga-mx-style-schedule-would-serve-mls-better/504217352/

    Ethics complaint about Beckham soccer complex in Miami spurs question: Who owns team?

    https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/miami-dade/article224282810.html
     
    superdave repped this.
  2. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Garber says there are four or five college draft picks in the national team camp? Wow, I thought we just had a back and forth debate not long ago on how college is no good for players and that the academies and going pro earlier was the narrative everyone was supposed to believe? If that is the case, isn't it better for kids to finish their education as opposed to forgoing it for MLS?

    Guess these lines are only used around draft day...

    Garber: SuperDraft will always have important role
     
  3. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    You get free college with MLS.
     
  4. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #4 falvo, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    Unless something has changed in the last 2-3 years, I don’t think that is entirely the case. Maybe a select few or GA players but that may be about it.

    I believe traditionally , most aspiring MLS prospects get full rides or free scholarships by going to college.
     
  5. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    College draft remains useful for players who slip through the academy net and for foreign kids who wouldn't be in the US if it weren't for college scholarships. And the top two picks yesterday are teenagers which is a big change from a few years ago.
     
  6. runningoz

    runningoz Member

    Oct 25, 2014
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Only way a soccer player is getting a full ride is if someone else is paying for it. The teams only get 9.9 scholarships to split between the entire team.
     
    Kejsare and jaykoz3 repped this.
  7. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #7 falvo, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    That’s ten players per school which is quite a lot nationwide. Unless something changes drastically, I doubt many MLS or USL teams will pay for that many. Not even 1/2 that amount. Maybe they will pay for 1 or 2 players schooling but that remains to be proven as I don’t think anyone has taken advantage of that yet.
     
  8. rocketeer22

    rocketeer22 Member+

    Apr 11, 2000
    Oakton,VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't know what may have been part of the last CBA, but I think players that don't have degrees have discounted online classes at SNHU.
     
  9. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy

    Isn't that the online college course USMNT goalkeeper Tim Howard completed?
     
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  10. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    No, I think the others are right. It's discounted classes. Hard to find particulars.
     
  11. asoc

    asoc Member+

    Sep 28, 2007
    Tacoma
    Why are you painting the situation as if its either or?
     
  12. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #12 falvo, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    Painting the situation? I'm not really trying to just questioning how bypassing college for an MLS youth academy spot is better for players. I honestly don't see much evidence of it yet.
     
  13. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Do you think Weston McKennie would be better off at college than starting in the Bundesliga and representing the US? Do you think Tyler Adams and Alphonso Davies would have been better off at college than they are today?

    Actually I think there are 6 former college Camp Cupcake virgins.

    A few of them chose college over turning pro, Corey Baird for instance leaving RSL academy to attend Stanford, and a couple of them seemed to have matured late.

    But Tyler Adams and Weston McKennie probably think they made the right decision.
     
  14. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #14 falvo, Jan 12, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    I can't really remember seeing Weston McKennie play and never went out of my way to watch any Bundesliga games. As I posted a month ago, having our players playing overseas does nothing for me as an avid MLS fan. Maybe their presence overseas helps them and the national team in the long run but I still see much evidence and it didn't help this year as we didn't qualify for the WC. Again, I want to see Tyler Adams and Alphonso Davies playing in MLS not overseas. That was the main purposes on why the league was discovered or rather to showcase our domestic talent to a North American audience. We basically developed these players for someone else to utilize and enjoy. Heck, no MLS team or the PA Classics for that matter can even get a percentage of Christian Pulisic's $73 million transfer fee to Chelsea. If I were an avid follower of EPL or Bundesliga , I guess I'd enjoy watching our players start and star in those leagues. As a 44 year fan of US Soccer and one who wants MLS to succeed and be one of the world's top leagues however, I don't see the thrill of it. Also, knowing how European leagues historically treat North American players, it remains to be seen if any of our players will thrive really over there.
     
  15. TheRealBilbo

    TheRealBilbo Member+

    Apr 5, 2016
    Remind me again... aren't the MLS academies part of USSF's Development Academy program, and the MLS academies are only U17and U19. U12 through U15 USSF DA are not part of the formal academy program, correct?

    If that is true, the only option for 20+ year olds if college or USL.
     
  16. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    Maybe. I really don't know. Most of the Quakes academy players I've met and spoke to all had aspirations to attend D1 college programs.
     
  17. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All the MLS teams appear to be represented in USSDA U15 Conferences.

    http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standings/league/standings.php?leagueId=MTA1Ng==

    And the Red Bulls U12 seem to have fixtures scheduled.

    http://www.ussoccerda.com/sam/standings/regevent/index.php?containerId=NzEyMjMzNg==&partialGames=1
     
  18. scoachd1

    scoachd1 Member+

    Jun 2, 2004
    Southern California
    About a decade ago this was pretty clear. Given the low salaries and lack of a bridge to the first team, almost all players outside of Freddie Adu were better off playing at least some college soccer. If you do a search, you'll see my arguments to that effect.

    However over the years this has changed and for many kids this is not the case. At this point the decision is mostly driven by the capabilities of the players. If they have a gifted intellect and have trained to develop they are likely better off at least spending several years in college programs as the academic opportunities from top tier programs like Harvard, Stanford, Notre Dame, Duke etc are orders of magnitude superior to education MLS offers. The fact that two healthy, relatively well-paid players Wenger (Duke) and Vincent (Stanford)with regular playing time entering their prime felt they had better opportunities outside the sport speaks volumes to this. Certainly Cal is an extremely well regarded public school and a degree in decent field would be more valuable over the course of a life-time than an on-line degree and a relatively low-paid, invariable short MLS career.

    On the other hand if a kid is just gong get a generic degree and some generic school they are likely just as well off gong the MLS route. Unless you get a degree in a good field (like engineering) or an elite school a college degree is largely a check box for HR that an on-line degree will take care of just as well as that of a typical D1 program. Furthermore if you are athletically gifted you can now start to make some good money in the game and as the profile of the league increases, so do the benefits of being associated with it. Want to be in sales? Well there are a heck of lot of fans with position of power in Atlanta that would be more than willing to take a meeting from someone that can tell them what it was like to train with Tata or an inside story on what happened with Barco.

    Furthermore if your focus is not on academics, players that immediately pursue a degree are a large advantage over their college counterparts from a training point of view and more importantly from an opportunity point of view. While many people assume success in sports is largely based on ability, in reality it largely driven by circumstances for all but the most athletic freaks of nature. Having the right agent, the right coach, a timely injury to someone in your position rather than yourself can mean the difference to making the national team and never making the team.
     
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  19. Paul Berry

    Paul Berry Member+

    Notts County and NYCFC
    England
    Apr 18, 2015
    Nr Kingston NY
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In England you have to choose between soccer and a decent education.

    In America you can have both.
     
  20. superdave

    superdave BigSoccer Yellow Card

    Jul 14, 1999
    Raleigh
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    These two questions are unrelated, since the first is about older players and the other is about right now.

    You willfully misunderstood the point in the other thread, bringing up 2010 draftees, and you’re willfully misunderstanding it now. You’re not trolling, but you can see Trollsylvania from where you are.
     
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  21. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #21 falvo, Jan 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
    Why is stating an opinion which by many can be considered a fact considered trolling? Who is trolling and why or for what purpose would I want to? Am I not allowed to express an opinion based on historical facts on the subject? Is that against forum rules? I’m merely pointing out that I don’t see this huge gap in experience and/or development between academy and college players.

    That was my point then and now. I still don’t see how picking to go pro earlier, as far as MLS teams are concerned , at least for players from ages 18-21, anyway is going to turn a prospect into this great , higher quality player. Maybe it does by going overseas but not here and if going over there is the only option or threshold on becoming a better player, then I reiterate that this academy thing for MLS , is really defeating its purpose and I question its validity. I stand by that point when I first made it over a month ago and now Nothing has changed to make me sway from this train of thought. The bottom line is, if kids are good enough , they will also be good enough if and when they make the pros. Maybe it hinders 4 and 5 year college juniors and seniors but not the rest.

    Again the players mentioned , Weston McKennie , Tyler Adams and Alphonso Davies are not applying their trade in MLS. These are players who are in their prime playing years. If our clubs developed them, we don’t really have much to show for it. Is the $22 million the Caps got for Davies going to be spent on buying more foreigners or the development of more domestic players? If it’s the former , I still don’t see how developing and selling him to another league in Germany is going to help our domestic league , teams and players.
     
  22. 007Spartan

    007Spartan Member+

    Mar 1, 2006
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You realize that academies and college aren’t mutually exclusive, right? A player can develop through high school with the benefit of a professional academy environment, choose to go to college for a time and then sign a HGP contract when they are ready?

    With that said, to me college in the US simply adds to the infrastructure of the sport. We have well over a hundred fairly well funded and coached programs that can help in the develop process, so why not take advantage?

    Should the league abandon its academies and USL teams and go back to relying on colleges to develop all their talent and then simply hope for the luck of the draw in the draft as you’ve previously suggested? Hell no. Can colleges continue to play a part? Yes. As others have said, it isn’t an either or question and Garber’s quote regarding the draft in no way validates your take that the league should abandon academies. Nor would going back to relying on colleges prevent players from bypassing the league and going overseas. It would simply mean that there are FAR fewer resources being devoted to development in this country, good talent would be priced out of playing once again because they can’t afford it, and the league would cede all control of player development, once again, to for profit clubs more focused on trophies than development and college athletic departments who largely could give two shits about the sport.

    Please keep making this argument, though.
     
  23. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #23 falvo, Jan 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
    It’s not really an argument. I just don’t believe bypassing college and signing an MLS contract at a younger age is this end all great thing. They can keep the academies in place if they want but I still don’t find much difference in quality from college players or academy players. Looking at the list of MLS rosters and the number of players who attended a major college program, I am sure others feel and felt them same way.

    Pulisic’s trajectory is a different story. Even taking his once in a lifetime chance into consideration , we have nothing to show for his $73 million sale to Chelsea. Neither an academy in PA classics , an MLS or USL club or an ncaa school can claim any of that fee. Maybe it helps the national team but it hasn’t yet as we missed the 2018 WC. We still have to qualify for 2022 but that’s three years away.
     
  24. 007Spartan

    007Spartan Member+

    Mar 1, 2006
    Scottsdale, AZ
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Again, many of the best college players ARE academy players and you advocated getting rid of academies altogether.
     
  25. falvo

    falvo Member+

    Mar 27, 2005
    San Jose & Florence
    Club:
    San Jose Earthquakes
    Nat'l Team:
    Italy
    #25 falvo, Jan 13, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2019
    Yes I understand! Go back and re-read. My main point is, by all means , let them keep the academies but players should stay in school play and get a degree because that will help them someday.
     

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