San Antonio's MLS discussion thread (USL)

Discussion in 'San Antonio FC' started by OleGunnar20, Dec 8, 2011.

  1. Jossed

    Jossed Member+

    Apr 23, 2011
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    #201 Jossed, Aug 25, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2015
    How exactly can ONE club develop an entire league to compete with a soon to be 24 team league where the average team is now worth $157 million according to Forbes? Sorry, but that ain't happening in 10 years. Or 20 years. The restrictive financial system in MLS protects the owners and makes it an attractive investment. And that system can bend to bring in star players like Pirlo and dos Santos. Where has the NASL taken advantage of having no salary cap? Bringing in the ghost of Raul? Paying Freddy Adu $21k for half a year is not what I call competing with MLS. If the money is not there, a cap doesn't matter.

    You first need a product that someone wants to put on nationally and will pay for. That NASL doesn't have that. The ESPN3 thing is great for getting the games out there, but who knows how many even watch the games? It is on an internet service with Frisbee events. And it certainly doesn't make the NASL any money. If the NASL was making any money off the NASL Live subscription service last year, they would have kept it. But there wasn't any demand.

    You should know by now that listening to Bill Peterson can be dangerous to your health. That is a pretty fast expansion in just a few short years. Where are these teams coming from? And what if markets like Miami and Puerto Rico collapse before then?

    Um, do you have any names of these owners? Because they are going to have to spend a crap load of money for them to have a league equivalent to MLS. We are talking a hell of a lot of money. Money that they currently do not have. The Cosmos and Rowdies might have wealthy enough owners, but they do not even have MLS budgets. That is 2. MLS has 20 going on 24.

    Oh boy. That is not even plausible. The USSF would never allow it. Donald Trump will be elected President of Mexico first.

    And the NASL quickly walked it back. Since pro/rel with an amateur league(NPSL) is not very appealing.

    Moral of the story. Don't listen to Bill Peterson.

    It is for D1 soccer in this country. That doesn't mean you cannot run a successful lower division club. But don't expect anything more.

    Um, what? MLS doesn't hold a gun to anyone's head. Teams leave on their own. If a league doesn't like it, they are welcome to have a penalty for leaving drawn up.
     
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  2. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Considering that Hartman hired the firm to find the buyer and bids went into the 2nd round of negotiations (last I heard on it) I'm willing to bet there's some bureaucracy in place even if the city flat out gave the Scorpions a silver platter of what they needed from the city's end and said, do it tomorrow.

    According to Don himself, no. When he visited he saw the reality of the city and the location and wasn't concerned.


    It is absolute idiocy to think or believe that the NASL could obtain an MLS level or MLS competing league in 1o years. Flat out stupid.

    Yes they want to strive for that ... but the reality is that the NASL needs to find quite a few markets to get to 20. Minnesota is gone, and the most likely candidates for MLS expansion are sitting in the NASL pool right now. Of course, two NASL expansion sides just died.

    Erm ... we're perfectly fine with it. That doesn't mean we can't strive for the MLS as long as there is opportunity. Doing so only strengthens our position as a NASL/non-MLS club.

    That's even more retarded than pro/rel talks. NOTHING about being in Liga MX would be good.

    Being the best soccer club you can be is the end game. At this time, a top flight club represents that and there is still opportunity to be that. Until that doesn't exist then yes, being an MLS club is the end game because it represents the top level of what we can be.

    Also, the NASL commissioner is a hot aired douch nozzle.

    Uh, what?
     
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  3. greenroom

    greenroom BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 16, 2012
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Until a new owner is in town, SAS will be in the NASL. Once a new owner is in place then the real discussions of what SAS can be will be answered. Can San Antonio and Toyota Field handle MLS 100 % sure.

    But for me with how the season has played out and how the Scorpions are being ran this year, a new owner cannot come fast enough. Having the team up for sale, has impacted the team more than I thought it would. From the lack of friendlies in the Spring, to letting some key players go. I will admit they are trying but it just does not seem they are operating within the same budget as last year.
     
  4. Daekor

    Daekor Member

    Dec 21, 2011
    San Antonio
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    @HailtotheKing @Jossed Wow. Thanks for the breakdown -- Barney style..
    You certainly have a lot of opinions on what is not possible. Did anyone think the Scorpions would play in a privately funded stadium and present such an appealing soccer product when the team was first announced in late 2010? Certainly not. Did people expect the success of MLS in all the leaps and bounds they have made since 1996, and having such expensive teams rated by Forbes (which you brought up) in less than 20 years? Certainly not. When people are knowledgeable, determined, and willing to invest, there are possibilities. Nothing would happen without first thinking that it were possible. Nothing is "retarted" or "impossible"; that is just an excuse.

    A lot has been accomplished by the Scorpions since 2010. In their second season, they made a profit. The stadium was built. Broadcast standards drastically improved. A championship was won. I wouldn't call it modest success. Name just one "minor league team" in any other sport, ever, that has accomplished as much within their first 5 years.

    Simply, without a franchise fee for first division and the lack of promotion/relegation, I understand that the Scorpions opportunity to operate at the top league is improbable or impossible (divulge yourself in semantics and knock yourself out) but that doesn't mean all opportunity doesn't exist for the franchise. USSF could offer one place of Concacaf Champions League play to NASL and USL by offering one spot to either. The champion of USL versus the NASL champion in a match to decide the spot. It is called Champion's League, not 3rd or 4th place league. My point is there has to be some thinking outside the box for "minor league" teams in soccer for this country to make an opportunity available that is just not available like in any other country in the world of soccer. Reference Swansea City and see what happened to their team in less than 10 years!

    Time for the burn paragraph. Hold on to your fancy pants because here it comes. Stop sounding like the Donald Trump of soccer opinion. Being a naysayer and trashing every idea as retarded and impossible doesn't make me look stupid -- it makes you look stupid. You sound worse than a two-year old whose favorite word is, wait, can you possible guess what it is? "NO." But why not purge the verbal diarrhea? But why not since obviously everyone else is more incompetent that you. In fact, you should probably be running this. Buy your own soccer team, run for president, do something in your life to please distribute the wonderful success you have to offer the world. SHWAP! BURN! END OF MESSAGE. DROP THE MIC.
     
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  5. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Except for the fact that they cannot do that. It's not the USSF Champions League, it's the CONCACAF Champions League. CONCACAF, not USSF, sets the criteria for entry and considering the fact that the second divisions are not represented in Mexico, Costa Rica or anywhere else in the region, I doubt that the USSF would be given an exception to let our minor leagues have a guaranteed spot. Besides, the NASL and USL can be represented in the CCL; they simply need to win the Open Cup. Canadian USL & NASL teams can qualify via the Cascade Cup. The (new) Puerto Rico NASL team can qualify through whatever mechanism PR teams qualify.

    There is already a ton of "outside the box thinking" occurring with minor league/lower division soccer in the US. And for the first time ever, soccer at that level is finding actual success.

    You're are talking about a team from a different part of the world, in a different system (everything from league structure to ownership structure to roster structure) that was established long before any American team's owner was swimming in his daddy's pants. Kind of an apples to Ford Fietas comparison here...
     
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  6. HailtotheKing

    HailtotheKing Member+

    San Antonio FC
    United States
    Dec 1, 2008
    TEXAS
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Actually no ... given how things work some things are "retarded" and "impossible" due to the climate in which they exist. It's a thing called reality ... you should check into it sometime.

    The Corpus Christi Hooks built Whataburger Field and won both their division and the Texas League in their 2nd year (and had games on tv in Corpus, and were among the top 3 attended teams each season).

    They do, it's called the United States Open Cup .... ANY team can win that spot.

    That's plain idiotic .... what team ANYWHERE in soccer NOT in the top tier gets into the CL of their region?

    It has nothing to do with an air of superiority or some kind of intellectual dominance. It has to do with people such as yourself going off on wild tangents and dream laden rants that have absolutely no basis in reality. Half of what you say is either straight out against USSF and/or FIFA regulations OR has been spoken on/decided by the ones that make the decisions already. There is a reality in which our little team exists, this sport exists, and that we must abide by. That's a fact. Some of us are more in touch with it than others. Speaking to that and about those things doesn't make us naysayers and isn't an attempt to make you look stupid.

    If you want to do anything, or to get anything done the first thing you have to do us understand how things are now ... and why they are that way. You have to understand context and what's applicable to the situation. There's no star road and rainbow bridge to get you where you want to go. Most of the road you have to travel is full of potholes and takes turns to places you don't want to go. Sorry, but that's life. If you can't handle it on a message board dealing with something we're blessed to have the leisure of enjoying then I'm sorry but you've got a rough go ahead of you. You can sit here and try and pass off the burden of understanding onto those that dare point out your fallacies, but that isn't going to do anything to move you closer to your desired outcome. If anything it will categorize you and forever leave you in a place you'll never be able to scratch out of. You don't have a divine right to anything, nobody owes you anything, and things don't work just for you ...

    [​IMG]
     
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  7. Jossed

    Jossed Member+

    Apr 23, 2011
    Club:
    New York Red Bulls
    No, when your ideas are retarded and impossible, it actually does make you look stupid. HailtotheKing already summed every thing else up. You clearly have no clue what you are talking about. I just hope you didn't drop that mic on your head.
     
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  8. brentgoulet

    brentgoulet Member+

    Oct 12, 2005
    PuertoPlata, DomRep
  9. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I get that Hartman is trying to sell so they can make it to MLS, but I'm not sure how this helps. Are Spurs committed to getting to MLS?
     
  10. jubnub

    jubnub Member

    Nov 3, 2012
    San Antonio, TX
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Don't know if spurs are fully committed to MLS, but I assume they want to be involved in all major league teams in city. As for the city and county buying stadium, it may make it more attractive for other investors if they don't have to front full bill for stadium upgrades or have options for public money to upgrade it. Not sure if that's how it works, but that's what I'm thinking.
     
  11. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    $14-$30 milling seems paltry when faced with $100 million MLS expansion fees and cost of upgrading the stadium, unless maybe the city/county is forking over the dough for stadium upgrades. Still the article makes it sound like the Spurs are working with the county/city to only buy the stadium not the Scorps. Seems fishy.
     
  12. greenroom

    greenroom BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 16, 2012
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #212 greenroom, Sep 3, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2015
    I don't see them buying the team without control of the stadium. So that is not fishy. The Spurs work with the Bexar County and City of San Antonio very closely.

    I do think MLS is still the goal. However if I was the NASL I would be very concerned that the Scorpions would remain in the NASL and not switch to USL. There are more rumblings around town that the USL might be the better league for the Scorpions with Austin, Rio Grande, OKC and Tulsa as rivals. And the Spurs have the USL rights. That to me is the bigger story if the Scorpions are purchased by the Spurs.
     
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  13. Prosoccercdn

    Prosoccercdn Member+

    Aug 6, 2011
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Rumblings from who? A few random fans who's opinions don't really mean much at all? I can't see the Scorpions going from a Soccer Bowl winning championship club in a Pro Independant D2 NASL to a D3 farm team/affiliate minor league in the USL. Don't see most of their fans liking such a situation either.
     
  14. greenroom

    greenroom BigSoccer Supporter

    Apr 16, 2012
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well are you in San Antonio? Like I am? You think all the "postive" news that NASL is helping? Look I think NASL is a better league today.. But there are a ton of question marks. And yes it is fans that are talking of course... The team has said nothing of course. But some your an expert on San Antonio please advise.
    Rumblings are fans and the one sports radio station that talks about the Scorpions. Its informal.. But does not ignore the main points if the Spurs own the team of that changes.
     
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  15. Prosoccercdn

    Prosoccercdn Member+

    Aug 6, 2011
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Fair enough. I hope the Scorpions stay in the NASL for many years to come, they've been a strong club for the league.
     
  16. ChinaBlue

    ChinaBlue Member

    Sep 18, 2013
    What question marks? All I see are all exclamation marks!
    Independent! Authentic! Free Market! Pro/rel!
     
  17. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'd hardly call people like Brian Quanstad or the fellas at Northern Pitch random fans. They've been doing this far longer than you or I or most soccer media.

    And this whole D2/3/farm crap. Really, ask USL fans, I don't think they mind their team playing MLS2 teams. It's all in our heads.

    Still I'm not convinced that the Spurs/gov't takeover of Toyota Field exactly means USL or even MLS. I might even mean Spurs are just trying to remove competition.
     
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  18. MUTINYFAN

    MUTINYFAN Member

    Apr 18, 1999
    Orlando
    If the Spurs purchased the SA Scorpions and move them to USL would they be able to keep the team name? Of course they could change the name to SA Spurs SC. Or even worse San Antonio FC, San Antonio United or San Antonio City.
     
  19. newtex

    newtex Member+

    May 25, 2005
    Houston
    Club:
    Houston Dynamo
    Probably. One of the Cosmos' stated preferences for joining the NASL over MLS was that the club got to control its own trademarks. Presumably if someone bought the Scorpions they could use that trademark in a different league. Teams brought their trademarks over from the USL-1 to the NASL when they started the league.
     
  20. Prosoccercdn

    Prosoccercdn Member+

    Aug 6, 2011
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The discussion was about talk and speculation around San Antonio not Minnesota.

    And no its not crap at all, D2 NASL and D3 Usl are different leagues serving different purposes with different business models. Of course many Usl fans may say they don't mind playing MLS farm teams, their Usl fans and they know the role of the Usl as MLS's farm team/affiliate minor league.
     
  21. SoccerPrime

    SoccerPrime Moderator
    Staff Member

    All of them
    Apr 14, 2003
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Northern Pitch guys are the ones that inferred the USL connection with Spurs potential buyout of the stadium. They do talk about all NASL and USL news, not just Minnesota. Brian Q at IMS News is probably the most consistent minor league soccer news site in the U.S.

    Do try to keep up.

    As for "fans" caring if it's USL or NASL. The only place they care is BigSoccer or Twitter.
     
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  22. Prosoccercdn

    Prosoccercdn Member+

    Aug 6, 2011
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    Try to follow the thread and what posters are talking about, when I refered to random fans in response to greenroom we were talking of San Antonio rumblings not Northern Pitch/BQ (who I need no introduction to).

    D3 Usl fans have no choice, MLS's farm team/affiliate minor league is what they're league is.

    D2 NASL fans on the other hand, most do/would care if you asked them what they would think if their pro independant club in NASL moved to MLS's farm team/affiliate minor league instead.
     
  23. Daekor

    Daekor Member

    Dec 21, 2011
    San Antonio
    Club:
    San Antonio Scorpions FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The only reason I would see Bexar county getting involved in the stadium is if it is for the purpose of the Spurs only. Bexar County has signed a non-compete agreement with the Spurs, pledging allegiance. So if the county is involved, it is for the sole purpose of the Spurs benefit. My concern is what happens when the Spurs buy and MLS balks on their feigned support -- a USL farm team owned by the Spurs. I like NASL much more than USL and I am more concerned about moving down than moving up. USL is on the road to no-where while NASL has real potential. I just don't feel that MLS is committed to having San Antonio join the league under any owner.
     
  24. aetraxx7

    aetraxx7 Member+

    Jun 25, 2005
    Des Moines, IA
    Club:
    Des Moines Menace
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No, they really don't. At least not the majority of the fans. Most fans of any given team just want affordable local professional soccer. The bulk of the ticket buying fans are fans of the team and not of the league they play in. As long as their team in competitive and the games they watch are entertaining and well-played, they could give a shit about it being NASL, USL, or (any other)SL. IT's lower tier/minor league soccer. Everybody going to the games knows that. From what I have heard, fans of USL teams have embraced MLS 2 teams coming to town. I think we can all agree that fans of USL clubs - at least those that have some understanding of professional's soccer's history in the US - cherish that league's new stability.

    The only people that give a shit about which league the team is in are a vocal minority represented well on Twitter and Big Soccer. Just because you personally feel that NASL is somehow more prestigious than USL, despite the very similar levels of play and the fact that USL clubs outright owned NASL clubs in this year's USOC, does not mean that the vast majority of fans feel the same way. Even the USSF D2 and D3 sanctioning is virtually meaningless at this point to most, again because most are just happy to have pro soccer in their market and the lack of difference in the level of play. The fact is, neither is MLS and neither will be. Both are what we traditionally call minor league, but the distinction in the level of play is virtually non existent compared to AAA/AA baseball and AHL/ECHL hockey.
     
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  25. Prosoccercdn

    Prosoccercdn Member+

    Aug 6, 2011
    Club:
    FC Edmonton
    Nat'l Team:
    Canada
    The NASL is a more prestigious league, at a higher level, and like Daekor, most NASL fans would be concerned about moving down. You personally don't feel that way, noted.
     
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