Sacramento is a plenty desirable market in itself. Going to Sacramento does not preclude other "more desirable" markets from entering the league later. If anything MLS needs more western teams for scheduling and conference reasons. Minneapolis is a "gotta have" market, but since (contrary to Warren Smith's strategic assertion) this league will expand to at least 30 teams, all "gotta have" markets will be in the league, sooner or later. There is absolutely no reason why MLS would't jump at the chance to expand the league to Sacramento -- provided the city offers everything MLS requires in terms of backing, stadium, support and so on. Right now it looks like Sacramento can offer all those things.
Yeah, I was on my way out the door, so only had time to be facetious. I've not followed the Minneapolis situation closely. I am a little worried that their metro area is 1.2m larger than Sac, based on latest estimates. With the Seattle and Atlanta expansions, MLS' stated desire for a SSS stadium is clearly a preference and not a requirement. But, I can be a bit of a worry-wart when it comes to these things, as @QuietType can attest. I've been to Minneapolis a few times on business in recent years but, honestly, have no feel for the place, especially for it's taste for soccer. It seems pretty homogenous to me. I'm not too worried about Las Vegas, San Antonio, Austin, OKC and the likes because they are similar markets who are clearly behind the game compared to Sac. I thought Indy would be a strong contender but that franchise does not seem to have gained traction. San Diego only worries me if it's a matter of relocating Chivas. Once St. Louis gets its act together, I would think they would get a franchise pretty quickly. They've shown the fan interest. So, in my mind its down to Beckham/Miami, Minn, Sac and how quickly MLS is willing to exceed 24. Personally, I think it would be prudent to stick at 24 for a while and see how things shake out but I tend to proceed with caution. If all the new franchises are healthy 3-4 years in, then I think the next round of expansion would come pretty quickly. If Miami gets its stadium act together then I would be really worried if Sac's stadium approval process is further off than we think. As it stands right now, I am cautiously optimistic we are the front-runner.
This always fascinates me. Why St. Louis keeps popping up in some folks minds. What fan interest? A dozen folks on the internet. St. Louis was considered a soccer hotbed 25 to 30 years ago after the old NASL died. Didn't even have an NASL team of any significance. They supported indoor soccer real well for a few years. Other than that where is all this interest and support? One of those little fantasies/myths that linger with no factual support or real reason at all for it to continue....but it does somehow. Why?
Admittedly, my only point of reference is approx. 50,000+ for a friendly (ManU v. Chelsea?) If Graham Smith can conclude that Sac can support soccer based on 14,000 showing up at a Raley Field friendly between two Mexican squads, then extrapolating the same regarding St. Louis seems reasonable.
What is the missing factor in all discussion of expansion cities is what's already in a market in terms of professional sports. Yes, the Twin Cities is a larger market than Sacramento. But Sacramento has one professional sports team, while they have the Vikings, Timberwolves, Twins, and the Wild. So yes, they're a bigger market, but you're dividing up every pro sports entertainment dollar there 4 ways. Adding an MLS team would divide it 5 ways. Same goes for a place like Detroit or St. Louis. Larger markets, but there are already multiple pro teams there dividing the disposable income available, not to mention the eyes and ears of the population. Meanwhile, a smaller market like Sacramento has one pro sports team in town, on an opposite schedule, which has shown by example of Portland, Salt Lake, and soon to be Orlando, the "1 NBA team, 1 MLS team" recipe for a smaller (~2 million) market works successfully.
Umm....aren't large numbers of fans supporting their D3 team also? Don't they have largely positive support from politicians, the genral public and the media? Unusual for soccer. Don't they now have an established big money backer? Does St. Lou have any of this? I would wager you could get 50K for those two particular foreign clubs in about 35-40 US cities quite honestly. Oh yeah, if that is what Graham Smith extrapolates from a friendly then he is nothing short of an ignorant, blithering idiot who should be ignored.
Umm...that was my original point. And yet, he turned out to be right. Not only that, he's been instrumental in building... ...that you have made such a point of emphasis.
True, a point I've also made in other posts, as well as Sac having no legit. D1 NCAA programs to compete for the sporting dollar.
Anyway back to the Republic and MLS in SAC within the next few years. Hopefully Garber will shelf the two LA clubs until a later year. What is the likely scenerio for that to happen in SAC? Would I be on the right track to inquire that Warren Smith and the new SAC PRO SOCCER LLP partner with the Kings. With the Kings new majority Share holding new ownership group being Basketball Fans and have based their major companies within California and/or are from nearby Bay Area. Smith being a SAC person. Being a big part of the AAA RiverCats and the Raley Stadium project. Now moving onto pro soccer in the state capitol. Could this create a spinoff new SAC Sports LLP? If so, that would be a top line ownership group all now with ties to SAC Community now. A group that may be very hard to turn down if they should make an offer to the MLS for the Chivas franchise. Highly respected in the pro sports circles and very financially secure. Keeping them In CAL and the West coast in a new market for pro soccer. With a community that is very much wanting to support pro soccer.
That group would also seem likely to also keep the USL PRO franchise as well. being right in line with what the MLS and USLPro is doing would be another big plus.
Except it should be in a different city/area than in Sacramento. If they could "promote" Fresno to Pro, for example, that would be a better scenario than being in Sacramento or one of the burbs.
Fresno. I have not heard of any kind of major league sport rumored to Fresno. It falls well behind SAC in metro population at just over a Million. the PDL Fuego play at the modern Minor AAA baseball stadium also is the track and field stadium at City College. So it is very similar facility wise but looks like something more of a USLPRO club in Fresno. But I really do not know enough about Fresno. SAC has a lot of their Ducks lining up quickly should the possibility present itself especially relocating Chivas and re evaluate a future plan for a second LA club
I was saying Fresno be a USL Pro location (Sacramento's affiliate), not that Fresno would have a major league team.
Hey, I'm not saying go live in Fresno. Where else would you put a USL Pro affiliate team in California that is outside of both the Earthquakes and LA territory and have the population base to support it? The Fuego do decent as a PDL team. Problem with Fresno is it's a poor area and not a lot of money in the population base. Maybe Reno would be a better location. Point is, if Wilmington or Charleston or Richmond or Dayton are good enough places to host USL Pro teams, why not Fresno? It has double or triple the population of some of the cities in USL Pro. Aside from that, there is a significant hispanic population there that supports soccer and is a source of youth talent.
You do know that Fresno Fuego games are free (underwritten by a local hispanic media company) so I wouldn't get too excited about their annual attendance numbers.
Yes, I do, hence the note about there not being a lot of money there, and the hispanic community presence.
No worries - sorry I didn't make the connection between your comments about there being a lack of money and the games being free. I was more focusing in on your "they do decent as a PDL team" comment. I do agree with your general sentiments and there are lots of statistics that show the failure rate of teams stepping up from PDL to US-Pro.
Are there defined geographic "territories" in the MLS agreements? I thought that was one of the items that MLS had to step in and mediate when SRFC signed the Timbers affiliation, and the Quakes posited that the central valley was their "territory." Don't intend to hijack, but thought it might be relevant to the thread that said territories might be negotiable......
The Fresno Grizzlies AAA baseball team does pretty well in Fresno, averaging ~6500 a game. Though it is a poorer community, I think they could support a USL Pro team. Even though they give away tickets for the Fuego, the upside of that is the fact that 2K fans to show up consistently. That's a good base to build upon.
Oh ya that would make a lot of sense. a couple of hours away but already succesful with PDL gives the Republic a U-23 club and the USLPro club connected at the same place I can see where he is coming from. It is about 2.5-3 hours from SAC which is not that bad really if you look to the AAA baseball locations to their MLB clubs. A model that USLPro and MLS is basing the minor league affiliation as one of the models. Fuego already have a strong fan base as well as a secure (I Think) venue in the new AAA baseball stadium. For it to work a partnership with the Fuego would be needed with the PDL Club for the Brand name. Adding a higher level of soccer to go with the PDL club. Problem could be that the PDL season is much shorter. Potentially leaving the USLPro side with a secondary home location. Best option for existing sites would be Fresno City college track and football stadium. Republic has done the same in playing at SAC city college track stadium. Not sure if the location would be good tho. A combined effort from the Rebublic/Kings and Fuego for a new SSS similar to the 3 million dollar current Bonney field. A small capacity pitch in Fresno could be used for NCAA events, problem may be that Fresno St does not have a soccer program.