Russia 2018: News & Analysis

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Dec 29, 2010.

  1. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    Yah, I agree. Also the gap b/w the best and worst teams in pot 6 is bigger than the gap in pot 5 or pot 4. So the group with Gibraltar in it is much more likely to have one of the "best" 2nd place teams than the group that has Kazahkstan.:rolleyes:

    Why? Its unfair.
     
  2. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    On UEFA including/excluding.

    Comparison of 2014 quals

    Rankings excluding 6th placed teams
    Grp Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts
    G Greece 8 6 1 1 9 4 5 19
    F Portugal 8 4 3 1 15 8 7 15
    H Ukraine 8 4 3 1 11 4 7 15
    C Sweden 8 4 2 2 15 13 2 14
    E Iceland 8 4 2 2 15 14 1 14
    D Romania 8 4 1 3 11 12 −1 13
    A Croatia 8 3 2 3 9 8 1 11
    B Denmark 8 2 4 2 9 11 −2 10

    Rankings including 6th placed teams
    Grp Team Pld W D L GF GA GD Pts
    G Greece 10 8 1 1 12 4 8 25
    H Ukraine 10 6 3 1 28 4 24 21
    F Portugal 10 6 3 1 20 9 11 21
    C Sweden 10 6 2 2 19 14 5 20
    D Romania 10 6 1 3 19 12 7 19
    A Croatia 10 5 2 3 12 9 3 17
    E Iceland 10 5 2 3 17 15 2 17
    B Denmark 10 4 4 2 17 12 5 16

    The two differences are
    a) Portugal drops - rather than being better than Ukraine on goals scored, they lose out thanks to Ukraine beating San Marino (as expected) by more than Portugal beat Luxembourg (and they only won 2-1 away).
    b) Icelands drops - but because the rankings used dropped their LOSS against Cyprus. This was Cyprus' only win.

    So, effectively the rankings used actually rewarded those teams that played badly against the weakest teams - rather than merely rewarding those that ran up big scores against the weakest teams (although this did occur to some extent)

    Changing it now would be unfair (although only if the teams involved were informed after they commenced playing - if they were notified then it's as much a matter of taste as anything)

    J
     
  3. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    In that sense, it's no less fair than the UEFA WCQ system in general (e.g. one team gettting Moldova as the weakest opponent and another getting Gibraltar).
     
  4. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Nat'l Team:
    Chile
    #654 Rickdog, Apr 26, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2017
    More so.
    In case of only results among 4 best teams in each group (as I posted before) :

    Grp...Team........ Pld...W...D...L.....GF...GA...GD..... Pts
    G......Greece.........6.....4....1....1......6.....3.......3.........13
    H......Ukraine.........6.....3....2....1......9.....3.......6.........11
    F.......Portugal........6.....3....2....1....10.....5.......5........11
    C......Sweden........6.....2....2....2.....12....13....-1..........8
    E......Iceland..........6.....2....2....2.....11....12....-1...........8
    B......Denmark.......6....1....4....1......8......7......1...........7
    D......Romania.......6.....2...1.....3.....7......12....-5..........7
    A......Croatia..........6.....1....2....3.....5......5......0...........5

    So with this in mind, Denmark got better results than both Romania and Croatia, against the better teams in their group, and would have got to the playoff's, instead of being eliminated by being the worst 2nd placed team. While Croatia saved their butts, basicly by the results they got against the other 2 "dead rubbers" in their group, against both of which they only got wins. Where Denmark also had to suffer the bad luck that their group, only included 1 "dead rubber", as their 5th placed team finished tied on points to the 4th placed team, at only 3 points behind the same Denmark, which also happened to defeat them in one of their 2 matches by a very expressive score (Croatia finished with a 7 point gap to their 5th placed team).

    In this scenario, the one eliminated without playing the playoff, (and not getting WC tickets, as they did later on), would have been Croatia.
     
  5. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    True, but this adds another level of unfairness since two matches against Gibraltar == guaranteed six points and +10 goal difference.

    The goal difference benefit is of particular importance since inevitably 9 or 10 second-place teams are going to have around the same # of points and therefore GD tiebreaker will come into play somewhat often.
     
  6. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
  7. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
  8. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  9. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
  10. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Almost like they are trying to buy some votes in 2030. :p
     
  11. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
  12. Southern Man

    Southern Man Member

    Jun 14, 2008
  13. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
  14. msilverstein47

    msilverstein47 Member+

    Jan 11, 1999
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  15. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  16. PabloSanDiego

    PabloSanDiego Member+

    West Ham United
    United States
    Jan 18, 2014
    San Diego, CA
    Club:
    West Ham United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just watched a really good video on Russia 2018 that provides a counterpoint to the over-the-top BBC piece. This has got me even more excited about next year. I can't wait to get there. My prediction: LOST of amazing experiences, meeting great people from all over the world (including a lot of Russians), and zero negative experiences. Pretty much like Brazil. Anyway, give it a look:

     
  17. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    I think it will be like most places on this planet.
    There's good neighborhoods and people who are welcoming and there's neighborhoods and people you need to avoid.

    If you are not looking for trouble you usually won't get any trouble.
     
  18. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    Hiddink urges FIFA to pick best referees for World Cup
    "It's not a World Cup for referees, it's a World Cup for football teams," the Dutch coach said in St. Petersburg where he is analyzing Confederations Cup games for American broadcaster Fox Sports.

    "We want to have the best teams so we want to have the best referees as well. Not necessarily European. Without looking to their nationality, which are the best referees?"
    http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/article158020884.html

    I agree 100% and have been saying similar for years. The World Cup should only have the best Ref crews.
    If it means saying no to African and Asian and OONCACAF refs then so be it.
     
  19. JLSA

    JLSA Member

    Nov 11, 2003
    Yet apparently not the Europeans. Come back Graham Poll - all is forgiven.

    J
     
    Paul Calixte repped this.
  20. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #670 HomietheClown, Jun 25, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
    goussoccer repped this.
  21. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    zahzah repped this.
  22. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
  23. White/Blue_since1860

    Orange14 is gay
    Jan 4, 2007
    Bum zua City
    Club:
    TSV 1860 München
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    Some scary magic stuff happening here in these parts of the forum...
     
  24. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    It was moved from the Confed Cup thread.
     
  25. Real Corona

    Real Corona Member+

    Jan 19, 2008
    Colorado
    Club:
    FC Metalist Kharkiv
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    There's not necessarily bad neighborhoods, fortunately still a bit of a carry over from the communist state that violent crime is extremely low. In many of the same apartment blocks are millionaire apartments with pensioners.
     

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