he might be a goat or cow or whatever in club football, but he is nowhere near diego in international football.
Nowhere near? Messi wins one WC trophy and he will have equalled Maradona (who in 4 WC appearances, won it once and went to another final). Messi already has one final appearence under his belt, so if he could win it, he absolutely would be in the conversation for greatest of all time, whether you're a fan of his or not... Edit: Maradona deserves to be in the pantheon of the greatest players of all time, but his WC legend is seriously inflated among some. He has one WC where he was absolutely sensational/untouchable and that was in Mexico in 86, when Argentina won it. But he'll be remembered also for being a mega cheat with the Hand of God goal vs England in the 1/4s (things might have been very different had he been caught by the referee). In 82, he was young and very much overwhelmed by the moment and eventually cracked after being kicked all tournament long when he kicked a Brazilian player in the stomach. In 90, they went to the final again, but Maradona was nowhere near as influential and what Argentina will be remembered for is putting one of the ugliest displays any team put in a final. And in 94, his WC ended early and in disgrace after he was caught in a doping test. Maradona is a legend and one of the All Time Greats, but it's not like he's head and shoulders the rest either. It's nowhere near that actually.
Maradona played at a level for Argentina that Messi hasn't reached except for at club level. For good portions of his time with Argentina, Messi has been ordinary.
As I said, Maradona had one WC where he was extraordinary. Messi still hasn't reached that level yet in any of the WCs he's played in, granted. But Maradona himself, whether it's before in 82 or after in 90, never came close to the heights of 86. Messi in 2014 was excellent for Argentina and had they won, the overall performance level would not have been at Maradona in 86 level, but definitely matched or even bested anything else Maradona did at the WC. At the WC stage, even though I've never actually seen him play other than highlights, Pele starring and winning 3 WCs is far more impressive than Maradona or anyone else for that matter.
In truth, most of what we remember from players in the 60s, 70s and 80s are from highlights, even if we actually watched the games live. I watched Argentina/England 86 live, but only two moments from that game live on the eternal memory of anyone who actually watched that game live. I watched Brazil/Italy 70 live but it's the highlights that live forever. I didn't quite make the cut for 66 or 58, however. In other words, anyone who claims that they're not influenced by highlights (not you, Ashur) of games from the distant past isn't being honest. Indeed, Pele winning 3 WC's is far more impressive than Maradona's 1 WC. 58 was beyond belief. Pele was pretty much out for 62 (injury) but was no doubt their best player (in a team with a lot of great players) and 70 was something else. Had the level of violence on the pitch that's unthinkable today been not tolerated in 66, I have no doubt whatsoever that Brazil would have beaten Portugal and subsequently beaten England.
Argentina will not get passed the group stage. You are a Messi fan, downplaying Maradona and other greats. Messi still has a long way to go.
Just because I don't hold this stupid hatred and bias for the guy, does it make me a Messi fan. I don't pray at his altar (nor have I ever considered the Greatest Footballer of All Time either), but I don't deny and I respect his talent, skills and accomplishments. There's a big difference there: one I wouldn't expect you to understand. Got all the proof I need by you actually thinking I downplay many greats in favor of Messi. I simply said that Maradona is not as high aloft as he's made out to be (and explained my position pretty clearly). For instance, he does not surpass Pele for me and it's not even close. It has nothing to do with Messi (which you bizarrely took it upon yourself to edit in my post, when he's not in that convo...)
Eh, for how good Maradona was on the international stage what did he accomplish at the club level? Very little in comparison to Messi. However, Messi was a part of one of the greatest teams to ever be assembled. This is a senseless debate though. They are/were both once in a generation players.
To his credit, Maradona may not have reached the heights Messi did, but especially with Napoli, he deserves recognition for what he did there: won the title twice* and the UEFA Cup (which at the time was a big deal). The best of his era for sure and one of the greatest there is. That can not be taken away from him. *Edit: at a time when Serie A was the best league in Europe, it's worth noting.
This is true. Domestically he did great things with Napoli. I was thinking purely in terms of Barcelona's stranglehold on the CL.
CL or La Liga both: that's why those Barca teams are considered amongst the greatest club sides ever (on par at least for me with that great AC Milan team from the end of the 80s and early 90s. And whether it's fair or not, Messi did have the benefit to play in a great and stacked Barca team. Maradona did have some good players alongside him in Napoli, but nothing like those Barca teams between 06-16.
The draw was generous to favorites, but upsets will happen. www.espn.com/soccer/blog/marcottis-musings/62/post/3291140/world-cup-favorites-get-generous-group-draws-but-there-will-be-upsets
[emoji4] The missing Group of Death 😭 pic.twitter.com/E7a9fk2eUV— B/R Football (@brfootball) December 1, 2017
Absurd that we couldn't make it to the WC. Europe and South American...incredible competition. Not so much in CONCACAF.
Putin will use the WC the same way Hitler used the Olympics in 1936 - Boris Johnson www.skysports.com/football/news/12098/11299075/boris-johnson-agrees-that-vladimir-putin-could-use-world-cup-like-adolf-hitler-used-1936-olympics
Boris is on the right track. Western European nations should boycott this World Cup. But the chances of that happening are close to nonexistent.
FIFA confirms that VAR will be used at the WC this summer. www.skysports.com/football/news/12098/11292886/var-will-be-used-at-russia-2018-world-cup-fifa-confirm
Interesting write up from Garry Kasparov, the chess grandmaster. www.espn.com/soccer/fifa-world-cup/4/blog/post/3427563/world-cup-2018-russia-is-the-ugly-side-of-the-beautiful-game-says-garry-kasparov
Dani Alves probably being out of the WC could be a problem for Brazil. There appears to be no real replacement for him, except for Danilo. Crazy that as deep as they are at LB, with Marcelo, Sandro and even Felipe Luis Tite can call upon, it's slim pickings on the right.
A sound choice at one point, but he hasn't been a regular for Lyon this season and probably not even in Tite's thinking at this juncture...