Rumour: Club World Cup to Expand? Confederations Cup to End?

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I agree the Club World Cup shouldn't be expanded; but you watch the Champion's league final no matter who is in it for the spectacle, and inevitably you root for one team or the other. Same for the CWC, but, of course, it has to be small and just a few games. For sure, expanding to 32 games will ruin it- players need time off and clubs have a right to do pre-season tours. I could see clubs sending youth teams to this, or simply declining to go.
    Clubs also can be unifying. Here in Colorado, the Rapids get both fans of Mexico and other countries where people have immigrated from, and fans of the USA. Plus, players are free to move around, they don't have to stick to their native dysfunctional national team. But yes, no doubt it is easier to pick a country in a random World Cup game than to pick a club.
    I'm open to the international break idea. Hate the idea of killing the CWC; but also hate the idea of expanding it. I think moving it around more would help- back to Morocco, or go to Egypt or Greece or Miami. They'd get big crowds and the time zones would be friendlier. Then go back to Japan or Korea (use the World Cup stadiums).
     
    Nico Limmat repped this.
  2. napolisoccer

    napolisoccer Member

    Feb 20, 2005
    Napoli
    Club:
    SSC Napoli
    Country:
    Italy
    Ridicolous Rummenigge !!!
     
    It's called FOOTBALL repped this.
  3. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Under the circumstances, FIFA can get rid of the Confed Cup after 2021 (which I assume is already guaranteed to the TV rights holders of the 2022 World Cup) without much pushback from the confederations, as Infantino can always justify it as a trade-off for the extra berths in the World Cup finals.

    But Rummenigge's on something if he thinks that the AFC, the CAF, CONCACAF or CONMEBOL will just sit back and watch the CWC get canned. Sure, the Europeans will win the vast majority of Club World Cups disputed in the foreseeable future; but the other continental champions deserve a shot at the world championship if football is to be the world's game as FIFA claims it to be.
     
  4. shizzle787

    shizzle787 Member

    Apr 27, 2015
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    United States
    The CWC should just get rid of the host team and leave it at 6 clubs. It should rotate confederation hosts yearly or be played in the same spot every year (Japan, e.g.).
     
    It's called FOOTBALL repped this.
  5. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    I proposed that at http://forums.bigsoccer.com/threads...ys-in-september-october-and-november.2035433/ but there is a problem. CONCACAF ended their Semifinals in September 2016 and started the Hexagonal in November 2016. The schedule for the Hexagonal was made before the Hexagonal started in terms of where teams finished in the Semifinals, but it wasn't determined that USA would start the Hexagonal hosting Mexico until after the Semifinals ended. It takes time to decide on a stadium (for USA, maybe not for other CONCACAF teams) and sell tickets, so it wouldn't be feasible to have a set of four matchdays where one round of qualifying would start right after the previous round ended. USA played two friendlies in October 2016. If the opportunity to play friendlies was a week before WCQs, teams might not want to risk injuries in friendlies right before WCQs. Furthermore, one use of friendlies is to determine who should and should not play in the next WCQs. What if a team played two friendlies followed by two WCQs and a player's performance or injury in a friendly made a team want to call a player who was taking a vacation in another part of the world to come play WCQs?
     
  6. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Mind you, I think we'd still have 10 total FIFA matchdays in the year - just dropping the September and November ones in favor of four games in March, two in June (not including continental tournaments) and four in October.

    Btw, a major question is how European clubs would take to losing players for a long period in March in the middle of crunch time (UCL, Europa League, domestic league and domestic cups).
     
  7. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Cough, cough...



     
  8. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    Croatia
  9. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    #159 Nico Limmat, Mar 18, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
    Hmmm...

    Overall I welcome the move to play the Copa America in the same summer as the Euros. The synchronization makes sense from a player release perspective. The European clubs will no doubt support this. If Infantino and FIFA want to push through a biennial summer Club World Cup that leaves two hurdles - assuming the Confederations Cup gets the ax of course:

    - CONCACAF Gold Cup in odd years.
    - UEFA Nations League final in odd years.

    The Nations League is just a "final four" on existing FIFA dates so not impossible to overcome from a schedule point of view. The Gold Cup however is more complicated. CAF, OFC and the AFC don't play their nations cup in June/July.

    As for the prospect of another back-to-back Copa that is certainly not great in terms of congestion but the future synchronization sells that to an extent. That said I don't support another co-production with CONCACAF.

    Did I read that right? Ecuador may lose out because of another USA based Copa?
     
  10. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Yes, although nothing official from CONMEBOL itself yet.
     
  11. tudobem62014

    tudobem62014 Member

    Feb 26, 2014
    Club:
    FC Barcelona
    world cup
    Copa America, gold cup, Asian cup
    Euro
    Confed cup, gold cup
    World Cup

    With Africa cup of nations every year?
     
  12. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Isn't the AFC Championship another hurdle?
     
  13. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    #163 Nico Limmat, Mar 23, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2017
  14. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    FIFA has lined up another "test event" for the host:

    Further evidence that the Confederations Cup is about to get axed? If yes I hope they have the common sense to let Russia 2017 be the last without trying to fit in a final 2021 tournament.
     
  15. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    I don't think they have a choice, if the TV rights for the 2022 World Cup included the 2021 Confed Cup.
     
  16. It's called FOOTBALL

    May 4, 2009
    Jesus Christ, they might as well let in every team. Have a play in round to pare down the 207 teams to 128, then single KO all the way thru. June Madness!!! Yeah!!

    Ugh. And I would rather they scrap the CWC than "expand" it. It's BS that we even have to worry about this.
     
  17. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    I sure hope there is a way to get out of that particular commitment. Looks like Russia 2017 will be a very underwhelming event. Now is the time to discontinue it.
     
  18. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    With FIFA not doing too great on the revenue side (unlike UEFA) I expect Infantino to turn to the CWC as soon as the World Cup expansion is pushed through congress in May.

    Our "little" tournament won't be little much longer. Having a financially successful club tournament is the only way FIFA can truly grow its revenues while decreasing dependency on the World Cup.
     
  19. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    African music for European club ears. Ahmad considers shifting AFCON’s Jan dates
    The way I see it CAF should stage the AFCON whenever it suits them but a reduction to quadrennial frequency would contribute greatly to some calendar relief.
     
  20. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    So just to spitball with the format I envisioned for a 16-team biennial CWC, let's see what the 2015 edition in Japan would have looked like...keep in mind, for the CL tournaments and local leagues that finish in Oct-November (now including the Copa Libertadores), we'll be pulling qualifiers from the 2013 and 2014 editions.

    Pot 1

    Real Madrid (ESP)
    FC Barcelona (ESP)
    Atlético Mineiro (BRA)
    San Lorenzo (ARG)

    Pot 2

    Atlético de Madrid (ESP)
    Juventus (ITA)
    Olimpia (PAR)
    Nacional (PAR)

    Pot 3

    Al-Ahly (EGY)
    ES Sétif (ALG)
    Guangzhou Evergrande (CHN)
    Western Sydney Wanderers (AUS)

    Pot 4

    Gamba Osaka (JPN)
    Cruz Azul (MEX)
    Club América (MEX)
    Auckland City (NZL)

    Mock groups:

    Group A

    Real Madrid (ESP)
    Olimpia (PAR)
    Al-Ahly (EGY)
    Club América (MEX)

    Group B

    FC Barcelona (ESP)
    Nacional (PAR)
    Guangzhou Evergrande (CHN)
    Auckland City (NZL)

    Group C

    San Lorenzo (ARG)
    Juventus (ITA)
    ES Sétif (ALG)
    Gamba Osaka (JPN)

    Group D

    Atlético Mineiro (BRA)
    Atlético de Madrid (ESP)
    Western Sydney Wanderers (AUS)
    Cruz Azul (MEX)

    Definitely more of an attention-grabber than the current version...and if they schedule the group stage games as double-headers (with the UEFA team playing in prime time), they would get solid crowds (e.g. 40-50k) - perhaps even better if hosted by the likes of Brazil, China or the US.

    I do have to say, though...poor, poor Auckland City :D

    Btw @Baysic @Colima24 @jared9999 you think América would survive a group like that?
     
  21. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    @Paul Calixte

    How did you determine Pot 3 and Pot 4? I don't think both CONCACAF clubs should be seeded worse than two out of three Asian clubs and both African clubs.
     
  22. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    So Gamba Osaka's in Pot 4 as the host team (2014 J.League champ). As for why CONCACAF in the lowest pot: in the last five years, the only time a CONCACAF team even medaled was Monterrey in 2012, while we've seen both an African and an Asian side make the CWC Final (both as hosts, mind you); whatever coefficient you could set up from the past five years of CWC tournaments would have CONCACAF drawing the short straw.
     
  23. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I think the current format of the CWC is perfect. Not too many games, thus UEFA clubs participate. Knockout right away so there is a little bit of pressure. Yearly. Realistic. I'd just move it around more creatively, and like all things, sell cheaper tickets so the stadium is more raucus. I want to see this in Mexico City, or South Africa, or Istanbul.
     
    It's called FOOTBALL repped this.
  24. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    I too like my niche CWC but think the commercial realities will soon turn this into a larger tournament. FIFA wants to get into the club game in a significant way. Badly so.

    Given the rumors of Qatar getting the 2021 CWC in its usual December slot to prepare for the World Cup I think the CWC expansion may be pushed back to the summer of 2023. That way a biennial CWC could start with a gap year in 2022 so there is no overlap with the Qatar World Cup.

    That leaves the 2019 and 2020 CWC editions and China would be the obvious choice for them.
     
  25. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Plus, it would give FIFA time to smooth out the international calendar, i.e. make sure the confederations know that odd-year summers belong to FIFA now.
     

Share This Page