Rumour: Club World Cup to Expand? Confederations Cup to End?

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Western Europe is outta the question. People there could watch top-level football any time they want, why would they be interested in the CWC?
     
  2. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    Croatia
    Let's make CWC played late July / early August in the US instead of that twisted "competition" called "International Champions Cup", please. 8 teams, 12 teams, 16 teams, whatever. Just scrap this mid-December insanity.

    I'd go with UCL, Copa Lib finalists, other continents' champs. 8 teams, two groups of four, group winners play for world title. There are people who would watch top two Euro and South American teams, there's most probably Mexican team, there are Asians in the US who would show up for their team matches. Africans play attractive football, Oceanians are funny. Enough.

    That way Confederations Cup shouldn't be scrapped, but I'd scrap it anyway as it is useless. Host nation could be tested with CWC in year before WC.
     
  3. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    Summer is a time when people travel, for the warm weather, and the long days. And colleges and schools are off, etc...

    I think the current structure is good, just move it around more.
     
  4. AlbertCamus

    AlbertCamus Member+

    Colorado Rapids
    Sep 2, 2005
    Colorado, USA
    Club:
    Colorado Rapids
    I agree, although it could be good somewhere that's fun to travel to and does not have one of the big 6 or 7 leagues. Greece, maybe. But first, places far from Europe and the elite players- Mexico, South Africa (use the world cup stadiums), Brazil, Egypt, etc...
     
  5. ceezmad

    ceezmad Member+

    Mar 4, 2010
    Chicago
    Club:
    Chicago Red Stars
    Country:
    United States
    I would like if the Federation champions (only 1 per cycle) would qualify directly to the World Cup, but that would f-up the qualification calendar for many and would mean less revenue making games for the champions.
     
  6. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL BigSoccer Yellow Card

    May 4, 2009
    The current format is fine, the only problem with it is the host berth. Summer is for preseason friendlies, not the CWC.

    In a perfect world, the CL champs would face each other home and away. Imagine RM in Mexico City, then Leg 2 at the Bernabeu. But there is no time, money or energy for that. So any neutral venue is fine, poor attendance isn't a big deal, it's a small price to pay for maintaining the globality of world club football. No other sport holds a tournament of 1000 professional clubs.

    UEFA would make the biggest impact in marketing this. Imagine if the adverts for the UCL KOs said Road to Abu Dhabi instead of road to Cardiff. Cardiff is just a stop on the way to Abu Dhabi. If UEFA acknowledged that, perception would change.
     
  7. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Put that way, I tend to agree. i.e. The format is pretty much fine as it is. It isn't important or exciting enough to make it a long 32-team, or even a 16-team event.

    I don't think that would make CWC any more popular. You can't fool the fans: they know that the UEFA CL is at a higher level in terms of quality and the bigger challenge. Add to that the CL goes on for 8 months so fans get invested into it, whereas the CWC last for 3-4 days. Therefore the lower-level, easier-to-win CWC will always be an afterthought until the ROW catches-up to the top teams in UEFA.

    Its the same at the National team level: Winning the Gold Cup is seen as a step on the road to the Confederations' Cup, but winning the Euro is just seen as being European Champions. Nobody is even thinking about the Confederations' Cup when they're watching the Euro final.
     
  8. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    ...except for FIFA, mentally counting the stacks of cash they're about to make with whatever superstar wins. Or crying themselves to sleep when an outsider like Greece crashes the party :D
     
  9. italiancbr

    italiancbr Member

    Apr 15, 2007
    It would be nice to actually see a format and how often it would be held. How many participants per confederation? What time of the year? Would it be straight knockout or group stage? They're too far ahead of themselves.
     
  10. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL BigSoccer Yellow Card

    May 4, 2009
    It's very important and exciting to the ROTW. It's already a 1000 team event.
    It isn't a bigger challenge at all, it is 2 games easier.
    The CWC lasts for 8 months + 3-4 days. It isn't easier to win, it is UCL+2 games.

    This illustrates my point as to why UEFA needs to tell the fans that the UCL is part of the CWC. They are not separate. Your argument is like saying it's harder to reach the conference title game than to win the Superbowl. Sure, in this case, the SB is vs the Jaguars every year, but it's still harder to play 2 extra games than not.

    Well, I have no problem with UEFA spitting on the CC since it is a B-tournament. But CWC is A1, FIFA needs to make UEFA remind fans that the UCL is part of the CWC. I don't think Roger Goodell would let any of the 2 conferences act like their title game is the be all end all and ignore the Superbowl.
     
  11. almango

    almango Member+

    Sydney FC
    Australia
    Nov 29, 2004
    Bulli, Australia
    Club:
    Sydney FC
    Country:
    Australia
    My country has been in two confederations and been in finals for both confederations. In OFC I always thought about the Confed Cup, not because the tournament was held in super high regard but because I knew that playing 3 or more matches in the confed cup was much better preparation for taking on a South American team in a play off than playing World Cup qualifiers against other OFC teams. Now we are in Asia, I was much more concerned with winning the Asian Cup and only thought about the confed cup afterwards. I think it will be handy to get some experience playing in Russia (you can check out accommodation and training venues first hand before deciding where to base yourself) and will be pleased with a good performance, but know its not the main game. The main games for us are Asian Cups and World Cups (winning the former if we can, and getting through the group stage in the latter if we can.)
     
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  12. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    I don't think I've ever formally thrown my $0.02 on CWC expansion, so here goes:

    First, 32 is way too big unless you're making this a quadrennial event...which IMO would be a huge mistake for clubs. Here we're assuming that Champions League winners worldwide from every year qualify, and there's a strong chance that a team qualifying three years early would show up with perhaps half the squad renewed.

    I'd rather see a 16-team championship every two years:

    Pot 1: Last 2 UCL winners, last 2 Copa Libertadores winners
    Pot 2: Last 2 UCL runners-up, last two Copa Libertadores runners-up*
    Pot 3: Last 2 AFC CL winners, Last 2 CAF CL winners
    Pot 4: 1 host league winner, Last 2 CCL winners, 1 of the last two OFC CL winners**

    * Teams from same Confed can't be in same group.
    ** Based on OFC ranking, better performance or direct playoff between two winners if distinct.
     
  13. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Mind you, I'd make an exception for the host, if we're having this in South America or Europe. Let's say this provision would apply only to Pots 1 and 2.
     
  14. shizzle787

    shizzle787 Member

    Apr 27, 2015
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    United States
    The CWC isn't changing and the Confed Cup is probably getting scrapped now that I think about it. Three words: UEFA Nations League. Between that and qualifying in the June's of odd years, the Confed cup is gone, and no one has the appetite for a change to the CWC.
     
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  15. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    If anything, the Nations League is a reason for the Confed Cup to stay: with UEFA practically opting out of FIFA friendlies b/c of this new competition, the Confed Cup may be the only chance teams from other confederations get to face top European opposition outside of the WC finals.
     
  16. shizzle787

    shizzle787 Member

    Apr 27, 2015
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    United States
    The schedule would be too cramped. Nations League and qualifiers in June, when would Confed Cup be played? July. Good luck getting clubs to release players for both.
     
  17. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    Especially if Infantino pushes through his 48-team World Cup expansion. The Confederations Cup will be one of the sacrifices to create a bit of goodwill with the European clubs.
     
  18. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    You must be confused about the proposals to expand the CWC to 16 or 32 teams then if you think its already at 1000. ;)

    CWC is a 7 team event. Just because competitions are linked in some way doesn't mean they are the same competition.

    Well, let me be clear since you're being obtuse. Its tougher to go from the UEFA CL group-stage to UEFA CL winners than it is to go from CWC entrants to CWC winners.

    That wouldn't change anything because of the simple fact I just mentioned.
     
  19. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    There is still time to play friendlies against UEFA competition. At the same time the NL is being added to the calendar, the Euro qualifying groups are getting smaller/shorter. So there isn't a big reduction in terms of opportunities.
     
  20. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL BigSoccer Yellow Card

    May 4, 2009
    That's just a matter of labeling. FIFA can, if they had the power, rename the world's CLs the CWC. It'd be a good idea if they did, the CLs are part of the CWC the same way an MLB regular season is part of that season as a whole.

    So for all intents, they are the same competition.
    Well, it's an uphill battle for those of us who care about the globality of the beautiful game. We all have to do our part to promote the final rounds of this massive global system. It's hard because of the ROTW's level, but despite of that, there are cultural reasons why some Eurosnobs will still dismiss them.

    So just do what you can to remind Eurosnobs that the whole world must be conquered, not just Europe. At least the World Champs wear a badge year-round to remind people, so that's good. The broadcast networks did a good job of constantly telling their audience that these teams were the best. AN tweeted that they're the 3rd best team in the world, and while that may be disingenuous, at least it riled their fans up and gave more importance to this Cup. The fact that fans again, like in 2012, sold their homes just to make it to this event, shows that there is hope the Eurosnobs will get on board and be excited over these games.
     
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  21. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    I'm starting to think a biennial 16-team CWC is where we are headed. That kind of competition would be self-sustaining whereas the current format isn't. I have to admit, I was hoping after more than a decade interest would pick up a bit globally. Expansion isn't really my preference but here is how I would picture it.

    First of all, I agree with much of the above but CONMEBOL should no longer have equal representation to UEFA. Not from a competitive point of view and not due to commercial reasons. But they bring the best fans so keep it at three, at least for the start and then get a coefficient model going.

    1. UEFA #1 (Winner 1)
    2. UEFA #2 (Winner 2)
    3. UEFA #3 (Runner-up 1)
    4. UEFA #4 (Runner-up 2)
    5. UEFA #5 (UEFA Club Ranking)
    6. CONMEBOL #1 (Winner 1)
    7. CONMEBOL #2 (Winner 2)
    8. CONMEBOL #3 (Playoff Winner between Runner-ups)
    9. CONCACAF #1 (Winner 1)
    10. CONCACAF #2 (Winner 2)
    11. AFC (Winner 1)
    12. AFC (Winner 2)
    13. CAF (Winner 1)
    14. CAF (Winner 2)
    15. OFC (Playoff Winner between Winners)
    16. Host

    If people object to using the UEFA club ranking then perhaps defending champions? Less of an issue with 16 teams.

    Now when to play it? It has to be in summer. Either right after the European season in June or in August. I would prefer June but then those FIFA dates (that UEFA intends to use for the Nations League) probably have to be moved somehow. Still, it would be worth it.

    Year 1: World Cup
    Year 2: Club World Cup, UEFA Nations League "Final-Four"
    Year 3: Various Nations Cups (AFC/CAF/OFC in Jan-Feb; UEFA/CONMEBOL/CONCACAF in Jun-Jul)
    Year 4: Club World Cup, UEFA Nations League "Final-Four"

    The Confederations Cup gets axed. Confederations may continue to organize multiple Nations Cups but only one of them gets on the FIFA calendar.
     
  22. It's called FOOTBALL

    It's called FOOTBALL BigSoccer Yellow Card

    May 4, 2009
    Yeah, I don't see them moving the Gold Cup or any current summer NT tourney for some bloated Mickey Mouse version of the Club World Championship. Teams can change a lot in a year and a half, it'd be kinda goofy to have players qualify for the same CWC thru 2 different teams, which is possible under these bloated formats people are proposing.

    NTs are a whole other animal than club football, a quadrennial WC for NTs is fine, but a World Champion for clubs should be crowned yearly. These bloated suggestions would really piss on the history of this title, which dates back to the 60s. Not to mention that teams would now only get half the chance to match their historical predecessors since every other year would be absent of a world crown.

    Infantino would be foolish to go this route, he needs to study up his history to see that the integrity of this Cup is worth preserving.
     
    Unak78, dinamo_zagreb, unclesox and 2 others repped this.
  23. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    You have good points, but the UEFA clubs (who win most CWCs) would brag about their Champions Leagues more than their CWC titles, which you disagree with, but you can't change how clubs value competitions. I don't think Real Madrid and Barcelona would object to having half as many chances to win CWCs.
     
  24. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    We have a rumor from Mediotiempo in Mexico that Infantino wants the 2019 CWC in New York. I'm guessing the final in the New Meadowlands Stadium (not actually in NY, but you know... :D )?
     
  25. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    I suspect none of the games will be within the 5 burroughs then (Harrison, NJ for the games not featuring the CONCACAF or UEFA teams?). But don't worry, they'll still have a watermark of the Empire State Building or Freedom Tower in the tournament's logo. :D

    (But actually New Jersey is still part of the New York metropolis, just don't tell that to any Manhattan snob or Brooklyn hipster)
     

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