News: Club World Cup to Expand; Confederations Cup to End

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Sep 9, 2016.

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  1. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    I know - but not for five matches over three weeks. I agree the USD 25 billion figure sounds crazy, but you don't need anywhere near that to get this competition going with prize money in UCL dimensions (on a per game basis).

    Oh well, let's enjoy our lil' CWC for as long as we can.
     
  2. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Let's see if more info is divulged. However it doesn't bode well that something that Infantino tried to keep a secret is being leaked. Who knows maybe Infantino is the leak himself (having learned a trick from Blatter).
     
  3. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    In the last paragraph the writer mentions FIFA and UEFA could be put offside (refering to his EU ruling). In the early days of the game the football landscape was a patchwork without much uniformity. FIFA was created with an anti-competitive behaviour mission in mind to tackle that uniformity issue and root out any splinter organizations (e.g. the quote below from FIFA themselves). Now that scandals have eroded FIFA's hold on power and they're even struggling to properly monetize their flagship event, the World Cup, there could be opportunities for 3rd parties to start challenging FIFA's monopoly or at least make them more attuned to corporate wishes. FIFA have been worried about football's equivalent of the NBA, be it a long-mooted Super League break-away or the filthy rich Premier League for that matter. TBF FIFA haven't been sitting idly by and lately they've been exhausting themselves to try to stay relevant, launching one proposal after the other.

    However Infantino has already been told that the CWC expansion won't happen in 2021. Earlier this year Ceferin also said the Global Nations League or World League, which could see the light of day in 2021 as well, might take more time to be realized because he's being confronted with a few big egos. It doesn't sound like it's going swimmingly for FIFA. I don't mind that the World League won't replace the Nations League as quickly as first envisioned. We'll just hold the Nations League instead. IMO they should simply alternate between the Nations League and a World League (like is the case with the World Cup and confed level events; the NL ahead of the EUROs and the World League ahead of the World Cup). The expanded CWC will be confronted with these national team competitions. The calendar is already awfully congested, especially if the expanded CWC is to be held in summer.

     
  4. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    #354 Nico Limmat, Apr 10, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
    UEFA wary of Infantino’s $25bn Nations League and Club World Cup buyout plan:
    http://www.insideworldfootball.com/...bn-nations-league-club-world-cup-buyout-plan/

    I don't think Infantino's belief is ill-founded but you can't just show up at a meeting and throw around huge numbers without giving any details.

    And you certainly don't approach UEFA in that manner about the Nations League.
     
  5. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    ...and if Infantino's expansionist tendencies were to be curtailed we can keep holding the CWC in winter. Wouldn't moving it to summer exclude the UAE as potential hosts? For all we know the mystery group is planning to hold the CWC and Nations League in China. Clubs also seem to enjoy the International Champions Cup which would clash if the CWC were to be played in the same summer.

    "Up to three editions" + "acquire the Nations League and the Club World Cup for the period 2021 to 2033" => so they're planning on alternating between Nations League and the Club World Cup.

    Last year, when the FIFA Council convened in Kolkata, FIFA and UEFA already appeared to have their wires crossed given it didn't sound like they were talking about the same global Nations League. Now it sounds like Infantino simply wants to take the Nations League from UEFA.

    It also isn't the first time Infantino tried ramming decisions down peoples throats. Ahead of the World Cup expansion he kept dragging his feet, only disseminating info at the last moment, presented as a fait accompli. Dismayed, FAs asked for time to properly examine a plan with a massive impact on such an important tournament. There was no valid reason not to postpone a decision of that magnitude. Sadly Infantino got away with it that time. We'll find out what the consequences will be but it could be a fair bit worse than buyer's remorse http://www.insideworldfootball.com/...ons-less-fifa-really-world-cup-numbers-right/
     
  6. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    #356 BocaFan, Apr 10, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
    ^. Good point about the ICC. Clubs make millions off those summer friendlies. So its not like the $15-50 sticks they potentially get from the expanded CWC is purely additional. Gotta subtract the cost of not being able to play in other tournaments because of the CWC.

    If true, awesome to hear that Infantino almost got kicked out of the ECA workshop! Wish I was a fly on the wall.
     
  7. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Well, well, well, @Nico Limmat , looks like we may come full-circle: a Saudi plaything replaced by a Saudi plaything. :D
     
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  8. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    More info: https://www.apnews.com/1e12cf3cec17...lFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP_Sports

    "FIFA’s financial report says the 2017 edition in Abu Dhabi earned $37 million" ... well, that's paltry ... "A revamped Club World Cup would kill off the mostly unpopular Confederations Cup" ... IIRC that one was losing money anyway and FIFA would love to get rid of it.

    "FIFA proposes an expanded 24-team club tournament, with at least 12 from Europe, starting in June or July 2021. The format of eight three-team groups, advancing to an eight-team knockout round, would see teams play a maximum of five games.

    FIFA’s partnership with investors would guarantee $12 billion in revenue from the Club World Cup — $3 billion for each of four editions from 2021-33, people who had been briefed on the project told the AP. They said FIFA would decide where the tournament would be played, which would not necessarily be in China or Saudi Arabia. ... Revenue of $2 billion is projected for each of six editions from 2023-33, and $1 billion for a first competition in 2021 when UEFA is committed to the second edition of its own version."


    Seeing how secretive Infantino has been those "guarantees" are a massive ?, especially when they earned $37 million with the last CWC and now claim they can generate greater than or equal to $3000 million in revenue for each edition from 2021-33. Also, at least 50% of the teams in the CWC will come from Europe. So many, that's a big no-no, Mr. Inclusivity.
     
  9. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Wait...when was it ever established that the Confed Cup lost money? I thought the issue was FIFA wanting something more profitable and relevant.
     
  10. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    There's not much appetite for the Confederations Cup. For the last edition it was roughly $100 million IIRC. The http://swissramble.blogspot.be/search/label/FIFA is top quality but their most recent look at FIFA has been a while:

     
  11. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    ^ Yikes! That para also sheds some light on how FIFA is considering merging the U-17 and U-20 World Cups.
     
  12. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    http://www.insideworldfootball.com/...amed-one-infantinos-25bn-fifa-buyout-backers/

    49% for the Centricus consortium, that's money leaving the game. I'm betting there's also a cascade of clauses with unachievable targets so you're actually looking at a fool's gold deal that will never make good on the $25bn promise (even ignoring Softbank's track record of failures or the opportunity cost of doing this deal). "FIFA would have a 51% stake", oh that's nice for keeping up appearances I guess. A pity that makes it 100% certain money will leave the game. I wouldn't even trust those crooks with a shoddily made wooden spoon, let alone seeing to it money doesn't stick to anybody's hands or "looking for" hosts. Still thanks for helping transform football clubs into franchise clubs.

    Good to see Infantino is still getting the warm and fuzzies from insideworldfootball.com:

    According to German broadsheet the Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung (FAZ), the Council members were promised that FIFA officials would draft a document providing more information on the proposal, but they still haven't received anything. It said that some Council members were left wondering whether the proposal even existed in the first place.

    Still no info with about 30 days gone (60 day deadline expires in mid-May). Infantino, you shady f-
     
  13. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Also, it's an expensive little "party" according to this article:

    "Last year’s international soccer tournament, the Fifa Confederations Cup, suffered from low ticket sales, producing revenue of only US$22 million, while expenses for the competition were put at US$142 million.

    However, the 2017 Club World Cup, an annual men's soccer competition that pits seven sides from six confederations in a straight knock-out format, made larger revenues than expected, with expenses at US$21 million, while revenue was US$37 million."

    For the CWC it's only $37 million in revenue. I wouldn't be surprised if they need a hand(out) to keep the expenses low, at $21 million, so they don't lose money on the CWC as well.
     
  14. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    From March 16 http://www.fifa.com/about-fifa/news...the-future-of-international-competitions.html says:

    "After discussing the pros and cons of adopting a different strategy for the future of international youth competitions, the FIFA Council decided to stick to the existing structure of biennial U-17 and U-20 tournaments for both men and women."
     
  15. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Moderator
    Staff Member

    Orlando City SC
    Apr 30, 2009
    Miami, FL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    IIRC FIFA requires CWC hosts to pony up $35 million for each tournament to help with prize money and VIP treatment.
     
  16. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
     
  17. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    For Copa Lib I guess they would just take the finalist if there was a repeat champion. But from which season would the finalist be taken? Maybe both and then have them meet in a two-legged playoff in the months leading-up to the CWC.

    There will be a lot of overlap among the UCL winners and runners-up in any given 4-year period. I wonder what they would do then. Kind of hard to determine a 3rd-place team.
     
  18. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Libertadores winners (or finalists in case of repeat champs) have a very busy schedule I hear. Their calendar is really unhealthy for players already. Will they burden them even more/find time for all these extra games? Then there's the issue of stability. Libertadores winners could be relegated soon after their win, even the year after, let alone multiple years. Sometimes those squads get completely raided and would hardly manage to send a half-decent team to the CWC.

    Also, it wouldn't be a surprise that in the final proposal the number of European clubs increases even further than the 12/24 (+/- hosts). It's purely business. Seeing it's a KO tournament with teams from around the globe things could get boring if none if the teams from outside Europe make deep runs. Chances are the final 8 are all European clubs and you'd expect the semis to be an exclusively European affair. TBF the expansion plans could easily fail so let's see if anything comes of it first.
     
  19. gringolimon

    gringolimon Member

    Club Bolívar
    Bolivia
    Sep 12, 2007
    White Plains, NY
    Club:
    Bolivar La Paz
    Nat'l Team:
    Bolivia
    Sorry to interrupt and go off topic but I just wanted to let everyone know that I'm doing a prediction contest for the upcoming World Cup. It basically consists of predicting the results of each match, from group play all the way to the final. Different points will be awarded based on whether you predicted the outcome (who won or was it a tie?) or the exact result (including penalties after extra-time). Depending on how much interest there is, I might do a second one starting from the Knockout Stages. Anyway, let me know if anyone is interested and please feel free to tell others (the more the better).
     
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  20. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Nat'l Team:
    Switzerland
    Infantino says it is time for a 24-team Club World Cup, but ducks the $25bn question:
    http://www.insideworldfootball.com/...e-24-team-club-world-cup-ducks-25bn-question/
     
  21. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    They could take Copa Sudamericana Winners instead.
     
  22. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    #372 HomietheClown, Apr 14, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2018
    IT only will happen once every 4 years so I don't think it is that much of a scheduling problem.

    And money talks. CONMEBOL wants piece of the pie and will find a way to get this done without much complaints.
     
  23. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Queens, NY
    That was true under the old scheduling format. The Libertadores used to run from Feb to June. The Sudamericana used to run from August to December,and some teams would compete in both in the same year.

    Now the Libertadores Is more spread out - Feb to November, with a winter break in the middle.
     
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  24. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll take the last four complete CLs and see how many finalists there were and do that ten times:

    2013-2014 to 2016-2017: 4
    2012-2013 to 2015-2016: 6
    2011-2012 to 2014-2015: 7
    2010-2011 to 2013-2014: 7
    2009-2010 to 2012-2013: 6
    2008-2009 to 2011-2012: 5
    2007-2008 to 2010-2011: 5
    2006-2007 to 2009-2010: 7
    2005-2006 to 2008-2009: 6
    2004-2005 to 2007-2008: 6

    That's an average of 5.9.
     
  25. HomietheClown

    HomietheClown Member+

    Dusselheim FC 1971
    Sep 4, 2010
    Club:
    --other--
    In terms of Europe they can take the runners up of Europa League in case of overlap.
     

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