Rumour: Club World Cup to Expand? Confederations Cup to End?

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    Missed this last month: http://www.bavarianfootballworks.co...confederations-cup-probably-ending-after-2017
    The ECA stance is of course no surprise, but does he know something we don't? There are obvious issues with the 2021 edition due to Qatar hosting, but that's the first cancellation rumor I have heard.
     
  2. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    Would eliminating the Confederations Cup reduce interest in confederational tournaments, especially the ones other than the Euro and Copa America? The October 2015 CONCACAF Cup game between USA and Mexico to determine which Gold Cup winner will go to the Confederations Cup had an attendance of 93,723. Regardless of whether Gold Cup 2017 and Gold Cup 2019 were won by the same country or different countries, there wouldn't be any more CONCACAF Cups without the Confederations Cup.
     
  3. shizzle787

    shizzle787 Member

    Apr 27, 2015
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    United States
    They should get rid of it. The calendar is too cramped as it is.
     
    BocaFan repped this.
  4. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    That is my take as well although I know some people like the competition. There is just no competitive need for it. We have the World Cup to crown a global champion.

    The Confederations Cup exists due to the following reasons:

    1. To make FIFA money.
    2. To prop up less glamorous nations cups.
    3. To "test" World Cup infrastructure.
    4. To give the World Cup host competitive matches in the absence of qualifying.

    The only reason that resonates with me somewhat is the second. But we simply can't continue to crowd the FIFA international calendar to elevate the CONCACAF Gold Cup and OFC Nations Cup, the two competitions that depend the most on the Confederations Cup in my opinion. I think CAF and the AFC would be fine without it. They are deep enough and have significant commercial potential.

    If a "FIFA carrot" is needed in CONCACAF and the OFC then how about tying the Nations Cup to World Cup qualifying? Say the (hopefully quadrennial) Gold Cup winner gets a spot in the Hex? [Edit - I see the OFC Nations Cup already doubles as World Cup qualifying.]

    There are rumors that FIFA wants to expand the Club World Cup. Could the Confederations Cup be sacrificed for a more prominent foothold for FIFA in the lucrative club game?
     
    Unak78 repped this.
  5. shizzle787

    shizzle787 Member

    Apr 27, 2015
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Country:
    United States
    I "like" the Confed Cup but it isn't necessary. Also, because of the US/Mexico rivalry, the Gold Cup will still have meaning. The OFC Cup not so much. Expanding the Club World Cup would be a disaster scheduling-wise.
     
  6. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    The Gold Cup is more or less an opportunity for spectators in the U.S. to see competitive matches on the calendar. It's such a dispersed geographic market that very few competitive matches will be played within 5-6 hours drive of any local market within a 4 year cycle. In a smaller country, a market like Chicago or even a smaller one like Seattle would get the lions share of competitive fixtures. I don't see it suffering as a result of ending the Confed Cup. USA/Mex will always draw well regardless.

    And if it does, there is always the possibility that the Gold Cup is played once every four years or that Copa opens up as a Pan American tournament. Dwindling GC attendance means there is an even bigger untapped demand for quality international matches...something that CA would deliver.
     
  7. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    I have multiple problems with giving the Gold Cup winner a spot in the Hexagonal:

    1. I don't think CONCACAF will reduce the Gold Cup to every four years, and I don't think the timing would work if the years of Gold Cups remained the same. It's played in odd-numbered years, and years before a World Cup like 2017 are during a Hexagonal. Years after a World Cup like 2019 have the Gold Cup played after WCQs have started for most CONCACAF teams. 27 out of 35 CONCACAF teams started World Cup 2018 qualifying before Gold Cup 2015. I think taking a Gold Cup winner from a Hexagonal year like 2017 and giving that team a spot in the 2020-2021 Hexagonal for World Cup 2022 would be working too far in advance.

    2. The Gold Cup winner is likely enough to make the Hexagonal that I don't think an automatic spot in the Hexagonal would make teams try harder in the Gold Cup.

    3. If the Hexagonal had 1 Gold Cup winner and 5 teams advancing from earlier in qualifying, how would you structure a round of qualifying to advance five teams? You could keep the Semifinals the same and advance 2 out of 3 second place teams, but then differences in difficulty of the groups matter more, and it risks having a team that could have qualified for the World Cup not reaching the Hexagonal. In World Cup 2010 Qualifying, Mexico was the worst second place team in the Semifinals.
     
  8. Chicago76

    Chicago76 Member+

    Jun 9, 2002
    These are all very good arguments against the direct entry concept for the GC winner. Here's another: if the WC does in fact expand, there will be pressure to reduce the international fixture list anyway.

    If CONCACAF goes to 4.5 or 5 spots in a 40 team field, the staging of the quals with a final hex becomes less important/more inefficient. There would be little need to run a consolidated final 6 only to eliminate a single team. Simply reduce the 3 group semifinal stage into a 2x6 and get rid of the hex. Based upon rankings at the draw of the SF round this time with a snaked field:

    Group A: CR, HON, PAN, Haiti, CAN, St V&G
    Group B: MEX, USA, T&T, JAM, El Salvador, Guatemala.

    The top 3 in both groups are the hex participants. USA, MEX, CR likely to finish top two in their groups. One of HON/PAN would be the other direct ticket. The other of HON/PAN likely to meet T&T in a playoff among 3rds for either a direct ticket (5 spots allocated) or an interconfed playoff (4.5 spots).

    I like the hex, but there really isn't any need for it with those extra spots in a post 2022 world.
     
  9. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    More rumors that the Confederations Cup will be axed in favor of an expanded Club World Cup:
    http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/uefa-planning-expanded-club-world-8858328

    A biennial CWC in summer (in odd-numbered years) of course also clashes with the Copa America and Gold Cup.
     
  10. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Apr 30, 2009
    Lima, Peru
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    #10 Paul Calixte, Sep 22, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2016
    Honest question for our British BS participants: is the Mirror usually this bad with its reporting?

    First, there are criticisms to be leveled at the Confederations Cup; "unpopular" is not one of them. The last two editions were widely followed worldwide (mainly because of the star power and the teams involved, to be fair); if it's unpopular in England, I'm sure the maligned Chris Brown can explain that. "I don't know how y'all can hate from outside the club - y'all can't even get in!" :D

    Then, "With the Copa America currently running every other summer in odd-numbered years..." did Ed Malyon just get out of a coma? This hasn't been true since 2001.

    Btw, this wouldn't solve Rummenigge's problem at all: by replacing the Confed Cup with an expanded Club World Cup, the NT players wouldn't get extra rest. They'd burn themselves out all the same, just now committing the summer before the World Cup to their clubs instead.
     
    Narc83, Unak78, EvanJ and 1 other person repped this.
  11. NaBUru38

    NaBUru38 Member

    Mar 8, 2016
    Las Canteras, Uruguay
    Club:
    Club Nacional de Football
    It's a way to prevent clubs from trying not to release their players for continental cups. I can't blame them.

    Actually, to make sure that construction is finished for the World Cup.
     
  12. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Apr 30, 2009
    Lima, Peru
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Btw, CONMEBOL recently announced that the Copa Libertadores will go to a full-year schedule. Doesn't sound like they expect the CWC to move from its current timeframe...
     
  13. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    Well, the CL winners would’ve had to play in the CWC anyway so this wouldn’t add much, if anything, to those teams fixture congestion. And then the Confed Cup is scrapped so the net result is fewer games for NT players.
    Although I guess that logic depends a bit on how many UEFA teams would qualify for this proposed 16-team CWC.

    But yeah, its still a stupid idea even if it slightly reduces the number of fixtures for some NT players. I mean, who needs an expanded CWC? Even with a 7-team format that we have know there is already too much disparity between the teams to make the tournament competitive and interesting throughout.
     
  14. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    The above article states eight UEFA clubs but I struggle to see how you could justify that politically. If you reduce the OFC to one participant and scrap the host you can have seven European teams.

    Just for fun let's see what kind of CWC we could have had this year:

    1. Real Madrid (2016 UCL Winner)
    2. FC Barcelona (2015 UCL Winner)
    3. Bayern Munich (2nd, 2016 UEFA Ranking)
    4. Atletico Madrid (4th, 2016 UEFA Ranking)
    5. Chelsea (5th, 2016 UEFA Ranking)
    6. Benfica (6th, 2016 UEFA Ranking)
    7. Paris St. Germain (7th, 2016 UEFA Ranking)
    8. Atletico Nacional (2016 Libertadores Winner)
    9. River Plate (2015 Libertadores Winner)
    10. Club America (2015 CCL Winner)
    11. Tigres UANL (2016 CCL Runner-up)
    12. Guangzhou Evergrande (2015 ACL Winner)
    13. Western Sydney Wanderers (2014 ACL Winner)
    14. TP Mazembe (2015 CAF Winner)
    15. ES Setif (2014 CAF Winner)
    16. Auckland City (2015 & 2016 OFC Winner)

    Perhaps FIFA and the ECA think they can do much better than the International Champions Cup in summer.
     
  15. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    What a shit tournament that would be! The semifinals and final will just end-up resembling the UEFA Champions League. As if there aren't enough matches featuring Barca v PSG and Atletico v Real Madrid. Wait! Is there any chance Arsenal could qualify? I haven't seen a Barca v Arsenal match this month! :sleep::sleep:
     
    AlbertCamus, Dage and EvanJ repped this.
  16. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Apr 30, 2009
    Lima, Peru
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    Depends on how much the European clubs would buy in to this tournament. Last time we had a CWC with a group stage, not a single European team finished in the top 3... :cautious:
     
  17. EvanJ

    EvanJ Member+

    Manchester United
    United States
    Mar 30, 2004
    Nassau County, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Country:
    United States
    I don't want an expanded CWC if all it's going to show is that the sixth best club in UEFA is better than the top club in AFC or something else like that which is known without being proven on the field. It would also devalue the UEFA Champions League if a club could lose in the Quarterfinals and then win the CWC. Barcelona won the most recent CWC and lost in the Quarterfinals of the most recent UEFA Champions League. Real Madrid and Chelsea have won UEFA Champions Leagues in seasons they didn't win their domestic league, and that could happen on a larger scale if a club won the CWC in a season it didn't win its Champions League.
     
    Narc83, Unak78 and It's called FOOTBALL repped this.
  18. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    well, I think its reasonable to assume they would have the same buy in as they do currently with the CWC. Which might not be 100% but still enough to win most times (with just one entrant while some other confederations have more than one) or at worse finished 2nd.
     
  19. NaBUru38

    NaBUru38 Member

    Mar 8, 2016
    Las Canteras, Uruguay
    Club:
    Club Nacional de Football
    More than two European clubs in a World Cup is excessive to me.
     
  20. Rickdog

    Rickdog Member+

    Jun 16, 2010
    Santiago, Chile
    Club:
    CD Colo Colo
    Country:
    Chile
    Actually, that's why they want to host and organize it.

    I'd bet that if anyone diferent than them would come up with the same idea, they would refuse it right away, for the same reasons.
     
  21. dinamo_zagreb

    dinamo_zagreb Member+

    Jun 27, 2010
    San Jose, CA / Zagreb, Croatia
    Club:
    --other--
    Country:
    Croatia
    [​IMG]

    I think that CWC in summer wouldn't be a problem as many clubs travel the world during July and August for money-grabbing friendlies. It would be a great fit into their preseason calendars.

    I like Confed Cup, but I also find it unnecessary.
     
  22. BocaFan

    BocaFan Member+

    Aug 18, 2003
    Brooklyn, NY
    BTW, have we forgotten about the UEFA Nations' League? That pretty much kills any hope of a CWC being played in June or July in odd-numbered years.
    I guess August is still a possibility but then it would turn the CWC into a pre-season/friendly-like tournament since there is no-way clubs will risk burning-out their top players by having them play serious minutes at that time of year.
     
    Paul Calixte repped this.
  23. omnione

    omnione Member

    Jul 15, 2007
    Omaha, NE
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Country:
    United States
    TBH, I find the CWC unnecessary too.
     
    Narc83 repped this.
  24. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Moderator
    Staff Member

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
  25. Paul Calixte

    Paul Calixte Member+

    Apr 30, 2009
    Lima, Peru
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    2019? That makes no sense...I'd personally hate to see the Confederations Cup go, but if FIFA wants to expand the CWC, it would make the most sense for it to take the Confed Cup's current slot on the FIFA calendar, not inconvenience continental championships (particularly the Copa América).

    ...unless his plan is to redraw the WC cycle with the CWC in year 1, all continental championships in year 2, the Confed Cup in year 3 and the World Cup in year 4.
     
    unclesox and AlbertCamus repped this.

Share This Page