RSL 2017 Game 9: Salt Lake at Kansas City, Sat. 29 Apr. 6:30 MDT

Discussion in 'Real Salt Lake' started by Ismitje, Apr 26, 2017.

  1. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This is a pretty tough stretch of games, and if you ask me, our best chance for points in the three game stretch that began at home against Atlanta was against AUFC. On the road against Kansas City and then home against Dallas will both be very tough. But off we go to Kansas this week, and we get to see what another week with Petke means, even if we're down 47 players with Rimando and Wingert the latest casualties (are they officially casualties?).
     
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  2. GoRSL

    GoRSL Member+

    Jan 7, 2013
    47.615587, -122.200340
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Rimando officially is a casualty. Wingert, unclear news so far - no concussion apparently, but that is all so far...
     
  3. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I predict we got smoked like the cRapids did a few weeks back when they made this trip. Our lineup will be disjointed and Petke's vision (whatever that may be) isn't going to be taking hold just yet. It'll be interesting to see who makes the bench as GK. Monarchs have a game at roughly the same time, so...

    Here is the XI I would roll out:

    Yura
    Plata Rusnak Lennon
    KB Luke
    Phillips Schu Schmidt Acosta
    Colonel VanO

    Bench: GK???, Dunk, Sunny, Velazco, Silva, Bofo, Hernandez
     
  4. Lizzie Bee

    Lizzie Bee Member+

    Jul 27, 2004
    Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'll bring plenty of #embratsu to the watch party so we can all enjoy the loss together. A best-case scenario for me would be a game that isn't boring or lacking effort. If they boys fight hard and lose, I'm cool with it.
     
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  5. DrownedElf

    DrownedElf Member+

    Jul 5, 2010
    Ogden
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I also think we lose. I'm mostly looking to see some levels of improvement. Less blind long balls, more movement off the ball, quick ball movement through the midfield. It's going to take time for Petke's vision to take hold, so I just want to see improvement each game. It's also rough since we're missing guys that could be starting or helping off the bench as well.
     
  6. RoyalNonesuch

    RoyalNonesuch Member+

    May 10, 2009
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #6 RoyalNonesuch, Apr 28, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2017
    Predictions: 2-1 loss. Then El-the-Rabbit shows up naked for the second half of the watch party, yells Allah Akbar and clears the restaurant then sits down and eats everyone's orphaned snacks.
     
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  7. gretnapie

    gretnapie Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    nr gretna
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    After another uninspired performance against Atlanta th e prospects for this game are not looking good but hey-ho we can but try. If we can keep Lennon involved in the whole game
    and not allow him to go to sleep for long periods of play. Rusnak seemed more productive and a less rigid system of holding position might help*

    * I know making players hold the left wing, for example, regardless play is part of the rebuilding process, but allowing a bit more freedom to make runs in to spaces outside the players primary operating zone might reduce the need for the long balls, too many of which increase the frequency of turnovers

    I agree with CrazyJ268 that Beckerman should be considered for centre back to give the defence a more attacking out look and make use of his distribution skills and would even consider a sweeper system. If Beckerman plays sweeper behind the back four, this 'negative move' would become positive allowing the back four to play higher up with greater freedom to go forward. Thus despite moving a player back there should be a greater presence in midfield and attack.
    But don't try to play the offside trap with a sweeper system
     
  8. georg

    georg Member+

    May 25, 2009
    Parowan, Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe we come out and have a surprise performance. But I see us losing this one by at least two goals.
     
  9. GoRSL

    GoRSL Member+

    Jan 7, 2013
    47.615587, -122.200340
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    So a 1-4-3-2 formation?
     
  10. 2nd Mouse

    2nd Mouse Member+

    Apr 11, 2012
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I think putting Kyle on the back line is a recipe for disaster, especially as a sweeper. If the slowest guy on the team is our very last line of defense, we're screwed. If we have to go with Kyle in the backfield, make him a stopper, to try and gum up the opponent's attack, but at least put someone with a quick first step at sweeper, so we've got one last shot at slowing the other teams' speedsters.
     
  11. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Or, honestly, we should bench KB and see what a youthful midfield looks like. KB just isn't himself lately. This notion that certain players HAVE to start is ludicrous with where the team currently is. You wanna make me believe you're retooling? Bench the captain when he's healthy and playing poorly
     
  12. The Franchise

    The Franchise Member+

    Nov 13, 2014
    Bakersfield, CA
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've said it before, but it applies here: if Beckerman wants to keep playing, does anyone think RSL should sign him for more than one year at more than $125-150K? If not, then playing time and tactics should be based value to the team, not the contract. It's not like we're worried about his trade value, after all.

    Sit down with him and be straightforward. Maybe it's a nagging injury, maybe it's the changing play style, maybe it's just age, but he's not the same on the field. But his knowledge is more valuable than ever. The team needs him more than ever in the film room and in practice, even if he sits out some midweek games while others see some time on the field.
     
  13. GoRSL

    GoRSL Member+

    Jan 7, 2013
    47.615587, -122.200340
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    So basically you want the Javi & Kyle show to have fully moved to FCD in 2018...
     
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  14. Kratisto

    Kratisto Member

    Oct 19, 2014
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    I want both javi and kyle to stay or have stayed... But not at the cost of ********ing over the team for 2-3 years. 800k is not sustainable for a guy who doesnt even deserve to start.

    Maybe it is a shot to their ego that their worth declines as they get older. Tough shit.

    The problem is that as far as we can tell, Javi wasn't even given an option to stick around here at 150k a year.
     
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  15. UPinSLC

    UPinSLC Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    SL,UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ********. NO.

    As has been said, Beckerman is a percentages player, he's not athletic enough, fast enough, or big enough to play as a sweeper defender or central defender of ANY kind. The reason he's so good as a d-mid? He plays those percentages in the passing lanes, but always has guys behind him to clean up in case those percentages fail. Maybe 3-5 years ago when he has still a very good d-mid he MIGHT have translated to a CB/sweeper back, he played those percentages very well (probably the best in the league) and usually won. These days? He misses on a lot and when you are a CB or the last defender and you are missing on a lot, especially against speedy forwards, your team gets punished, a lot. Keep Beckerman in the d-mid area, he plays the passing lanes well enough, but keep him the ******** away from the defensive line.

    Over the course of this season one thing I have seen KB do a lot of is the "Wingert Defense", basically he is too damn slow and doesn't have quick enough feet and when he gets beat 1v1 by a guy he results to just grabbing the jersey (or hell, even just tackling the guy with his arms) and taking the foul. You see Wingert do this all the time now, he's so damn slow he quite literally cannot defend 1v1 and so his only defense in those situations is to foul. It's too bad Sunny has completely fallen off the map, he appeared quick enough and athletic enough to be the next KB, now he just plain sucks ass.
     
  16. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    I'm cheering to shut other teams out and to not get shut out.

    Ties are wins.

    Wins are celebrations!!!
     
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  17. PattysCow

    PattysCow Member+

    Apr 4, 2010
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    MLS just needs a rule where players who are over 32 and have been with the club for at least five years are off the books.
     
  18. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    I know we've talked about this at length, but I thought we had pretty much all come to the conclusion that Beckerman has "regressed" because the new system we play is asking for him to run around too damn much. At 35 and never being that fast, this was always a recipe for disaster for him, no matter how good he is (or isn't, ymmv).
     
  19. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    ugh, please no. IMO that will regress teams.

    Hypothetically you open up more cap space by keeping the vets, sure. But far too many teams in this league (ours included) play the safe move with a vet at the expense of a young promising player. You allow clubs to have that kind of cap situation and you'll see minimal movement from GM's (roster size limitations) and coaches that trot out the same lineup from 5 years ago.
     
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  20. PattysCow

    PattysCow Member+

    Apr 4, 2010
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    The rule could either improve a team when used correctly or cripple a team when used incorrectly. No different from many of the current roster rules. The GMs who struggle to succeed under current roster rules are probably the same ones who would struggle with this rule. It would simply add more flexibility.
     
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  21. gretnapie

    gretnapie Member

    Jun 23, 2008
    nr gretna
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Matters Arising

    1. yes, the Christmas tree or even 1-4-4-1
    2. Speed is not the essential quality here its a reading of the game that puts the sweeper in the right position to intercept through balls and support other defenders by being the second man in the tackle.[aside; when we double up now the first player either puts the tackle in or steers the attacker in to a position that the second player can easily pick up the ball. When this happens the second player is usually a centre half straying out of position which in turn leaves a gap where the centre half is supposed to be. The sweeper can either be the second defender or fill the gap left by the centre half]
    3. Look up Franz Beckenbauer on youtube there's bound to be some footage of him playing sweeper. He was not fast but had perfect timing and reading the game well was able distribute the ball with telling passes.
    4. The real benefit of a sweeper system is whilst pulling a player back it allows the rest of the team to play a higher line pushing the full backs into wide midfield positions and what at first appears to be a defence strengthening is infact an attack minded change
    5. The Wingert defence, the reason Chris will never be a centre half is because played all his life with a safety zone in to which to play the ball as a last resort. When playing centre half the bye line is so much further away and the techniques and skills required are completely different. Think of a defender being attacked one on one, one option is to steer the attacker towards the bye line but in the centre of the park this is not an option you can only lunge in or back off (or steer the attacker on to the waiting feet of the sweeper?)
     
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  22. El-ahrairah

    El-ahrairah Member+

    Sep 20, 2004
    Wanker County
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Just a quick question. Is there any team out there that plays with a sweeper nowadays? Back a number of years, it seemed like everyone played with a sweeper but no longer.
     
  23. The Franchise

    The Franchise Member+

    Nov 13, 2014
    Bakersfield, CA
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It seems like a big disadvantage due to the offside rule.
     
  24. TheBiff

    TheBiff Member+

    Apr 8, 2011
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    Ecuador
    I'd rather have an actual center back so please stop giving Waibel ideas.
     
  25. UPinSLC

    UPinSLC Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    SL,UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    2) Speed IS essential when you are slow as ******** and are regressing dramatically in your career, Beckerman used to have those cerebral traits that allowed him to jump passing lanes and intercept passes, he doesn't anymore, he employs the Wingert strategy of defending which is dive in and when you miss foul the player. You know what happens when a player is a sweeper behind the backline and has to use that strategy? A whole ********ing lot of goals given up and a lot of red cards for being the last man and fouling. I don't even know why we're having this discussion, it's seriously one of the most idiotic ideas ever brought up on this forum.

    3) You're seriously trying to draw any type of comparison between Franz ********ing Beckenbauer and Kyle Beckerman? /facepalm.

    4) A higher line and leaving Kyle Beckerman a lone to cover an enormous amount space behind as a last defender? Have you completely ignored (or failed to read) the huge amount of complaints by fans and analysts about how Kyle has had way too much space to cover since the switch to a 4-3-3? And now you want him to be a last defender behind a high line? LMFAO.

    5) All those things you mentioned, not being able to steer defenders or rely on people to clean up your miss when you miss your 1v1 defense, is EXACTLY why you do not want Beckerman in a sweeper position. This has been reiterated 100 times already and there's no point in going through it again. KB as a sweeper would be an unmitigated disaster, let's move on.
     

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