RSL 2016 Playoffs! Salt Lake at Los Angeles, Weds. 26 Oct. 8:30 MDT (on UniMas)

Discussion in 'Real Salt Lake' started by Ismitje, Oct 23, 2016.

  1. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    1. This never felt like a playoff game from RSL. Playoff games have a lot of emotion to them. Players put their full amount of effort into the game because if they lose tomorrow doesn't exist. This NEVER had that, and that's 100% on the coaching staff. The only moment this felt like a playoff game was from LA when they scored their first goal and when they responded so quickly to the (bogus) equalizer. RSL looked like they were playing a regular season game on 3 days rest in mid to late May.
    2. Chris Wingert better have played his last RSL game last night. In fact, that better have been the last RSL game for a lot of players. Wingert in particular, though, was out there taking up space (cap and literal) and valuable time from younger players. This is EXACTLY what we didn't want when we signed him.
    3. Chris Schuler has the technical abilities of my U10 team. I coach the bottom U10 team in my club. Like players 60-70.
    4. Our middle five was atrocious in this game. Mostly because it was actually only a middle two with the other three not knowing where to go. LA abused our lack of width in the middle of the pitch so much. We couldn't get the ball out of our half because of this.
    5. Boateng is just like Justin Meram or Arturo Alvarez. When they play against RSL, you think "man, how is this guy not top player in the league?" It's because our rigid tactics, especially on the defensive side of the ball, don't handle a player willing to put his head down and run at our defenders.
    6. RSL has historically prided itself on the "the sum of the pieces is greater than the whole" approach. Under Cassar, though, it feels like the opposite. The sum of the pieces is somehow lesser than the whole.
    7. Phillips should have been sent off. Not sure what Kelly was thinking, but that's about as clear of a second yellow as you get. EVERYONE knew it.
    8. CassarTactics were in full gear whenever we did get the ball out of our half. Typically we would only have 1 or 2 players on the other side of midfield. More often than not, the target forward was not one of those. In the instances where he was (Olmes, mostly) the next 3 were 30+ yards away with defenders between them and the ball.
    9. Movement off the ball might be the most undertalked about thing with this team. It goes in hand with a lot of the complaints, but looking at it specifically is shocking. Go watch just about any 2 minute stretch of this game and look at the amount of movement off the ball. It's typically one or two players, if that, while others stand or jog with a defender cutting them off.
    10. To expand on this, LA's movement off the ball was a watered down version of Pep's version. Once they won the ball, multiple runs were happening across the entire pitch. It was pretty to watch from a neutral perspective.
    11. Nick Rimando had a bad year by his standards. Not awful by any means, but you can usually count on that guy to make a save or two that other GK's wouldn't. He hasn't done that much this year.
    12. Waibel's faith in our raw CB's is going to kill us in 2017. Those two aren't bad, but we aren't going to push for anything (especially in the West) with those two starting. Each could start next to a top CB, but those two aren't the answer. And the depth is Maund? Dear god, we're so mediocre.
    13. I liked Phillips this year, but he isn't the answer at wingback. I'd love to see RSL offload all of their outside defenders and try something different. The cap space we could open with just cutting ties with Beltran and Phillips would be amazing.
    14. I'd be livid if I was Jordan Allen. The kid is a hell of a player and a great human being. Being passed up for time by Luke ********ing Mulholland has to be infuriating. If I were him I'd bend RSL over a barrel like Salcedo/Saucedo and say "either I start next year 75% or you loan me the full year to someone that will". Wasting our homegrown talent is so ********ing depressing.
    15. I want this team to clean house. Hell, right now (in my adimitedly emotional state) I'm having a hard time coming up with a list of players outside the obvious young ones that should be here in 2017. I don't see how this team can move to a new identity with KB and Javi still on the pitch. Even Nicky is starting to be a hard thought in my head. I want something different from RSL in 2017. Since 2009 we've essentially had the same leading cast. Sure, the supporting cast has changed and maybe the specific formation has too, but the core of this team is still the same. It's time to say bye to it and move on. It's simply not working. We're getting ran past both literally and figuratively.
     
  2. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I want to make something clear: Cassar is not the man for the job. But simply replacing him with another coach and keeping the same core group of players won't equal success in 2017. This group is past it's "best used by" date by quite a bit now.
     
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  3. RoyalNonesuch

    RoyalNonesuch Member+

    May 10, 2009
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Clearly someone phills upset about the loss.
     
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  4. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    I'm on the Cassar-out bandwagon now. Though RSL met my expectations for the season (making the playoffs, we went over this. I didn't think they'd be that good) but the personnel is a huge problem too. I wasn't a fan of re-signing Javi and not having a clear replacement in mind. I wasn't a fan of re-signing Yura for the amount of money they're paying him vs. his production.

    RSL has relied on the same cast of characters since the 2009 season. It caught fire in 2013 but even then, you could see problems. Lack of aggressiveness in the final third, rigid tactics. And that was the year that our Lord and Savior Jason Kreis led 11 stout warriors to a heroic victory using the enchanted diamond of a 1000 truths.

    Be prepared for a bad year next year unless this team bites the bullet and loses some over-payed vets and brings in real talent.

    Also, Burrito needs to go. I know he has beef with Jeff but he's showed his ass in two games now. If it was Sabo who acted like Burrito did towards Jeff, people would've wanted him run out of town on a rail.
     
  5. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    100% agree. The only way Burrito can be here next year (and I'd put Plata in this group, too) is if Jeff isn't. Those two parties cannot work together. The decline in play from those two players was shocking. Plata gave the ball away more than kept it and Burrito didn't look like he gave two shits
     
  6. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    The last game I've seen from RSL that was really fun was the win against Colorado in late August on a Friday night. It had maybe been a year up until then since I had seen that kind of commitment and urgency in the team. It looks like they used it all up that one night, because they've utterly sucked since.

    This has been my biggest worry since Cassar took over. Soccer is no fun to play when your team is stagnant and just fulfilling their role. No joy or excitement. It's been a slog these last couple of years.

    Yura and youth are about the only players I'd positively keep. I'd keep Kyle and Nicky too. But ESPECIALLY Yura. He's the best in the league right now.
     
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  7. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake



    [​IMG]
     
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  8. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Alan Gordon finishing like a target forward should while Yura continues to need (a lot) more than his one chance was funny last night.
    Mr. "I only need one change now" isn't top in the league. You're up in the night if you think that. He's good. Not in our system, of course, but a good player. But when your position competition includes BWP, Giovinco, Keane, Villa, etc... Yeah, not top
     
  9. Lizzie Bee

    Lizzie Bee Member+

    Jul 27, 2004
    Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm really not on the Yura bandwagon. I was not actively following the team much during our championship run and never saw much of Yura before this year, so I have no sentimentality. I wonder if the Yura fans are remembering the past, because I just don't see it based on 2016. He's all right, but nothing to get excited over.

    If I had to choose between Plata/Burrito and Cassar, I'll take Plata/Burrito every day of the week.
     
  10. Ismitje

    Ismitje Super Moderator

    Dec 30, 2000
    The Palouse
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I have a hard time evaluating Yura because of the tactics we employ and his supporting cast. I do think he could easily be a 15 goal guy, but not the way we're employing him. I have no problem basing the incoming 2017 payers off the way we need to employ him, which I think makes me a fan.
     
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  11. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake

    Not saying Jeff needs to stay but the utter lack of class and professionalism by Burrito and Plata in recent weeks is unwarranted and has no place on this team. I don't care who you are, the coach is your boss. I can't believe I'm calling out someone for using the F-word (which is a personal favorite word of mine) but when you get pulled from the game and reply to your coach with "F*** you", you should be suspended at minimum. I don't want that kind of crap anywhere near any team I root for be it RSL. the Bengals, Reds, Columbus, FC Cincinnati, Tottenham or the Murray City Ladybugs.
     
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  12. SenordrummeR2

    SenordrummeR2 Member+

    Jul 21, 2008
    Layton, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Man, it's a good thing you didn't list the Browns in that list of teams. This kind of player reaction seems like just the thing the Browns look for.
     
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  13. Lizzie Bee

    Lizzie Bee Member+

    Jul 27, 2004
    Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Was that last night? I didn't see this, so I'm curious what the source is.
     
  14. CrazyJ628

    CrazyJ628 Member+

    Jul 16, 2007
    The center of the Earth
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    At Seattle Burrito apparently said F-you to Cassar. At least that was the Twitter/Reddit scuttlebutt.
     
  15. El-ahrairah

    El-ahrairah Member+

    Sep 20, 2004
    Wanker County
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Maybe he said it in Spanish.
     
  16. RSLer

    RSLer Member+

    Sep 24, 2008
    Stansbury Park, UT
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I've played Devil's Advocate against the Fire Cassar tide all season, if for no other reason, because someone needed to. It's been fun tbh. A by product of the incident you describe is a reason I am not fully vested in the Keep Cassar opinion: that by-product is that no one on the team jumped in, publicly, to denounce Burrito's actions and to hold him accountable. That's what Captains and other team leaders do in that situation. To me it means Cassar has lost the team and the locker room...something no HC can survive and solid evidence that he's just not yet ready for this. At the same time I can point to said Captains and team leaders as having their share of culpability in all of this. As professionals it is not their job to publicly throw any coach under the bus via not giving a shit on the field and publicly disrespecting that coach. They have responsibilities to the league, the organization, the sport, the jersey, their teammates and to the loyal fans. I'm pretty disgusted with those Captains and leaders right now. I honestly do not want them as coaches in the organization either. Clear them out!
     
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  17. rslfanboy

    rslfanboy Member+

    Jul 24, 2007
    Section 26
    Wait for it.
     
  18. 15 to 32

    15 to 32 Straw Hog

    Jul 1, 2008
    Salt Lake
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    there were a lot of people last night on the twitter talking about how Plata had a good year. I don't necessarily disagree with that, but like RSL, he benefited from a hot start. Go look at our stat page: http://www.rsl.com/stats

    Plata scored 5 goals through May. He then scored 4 goals from June to September. In a system built especially for him, that is not a good rate of return.

    His assist numbers are better, but not by much. He had half of his assist (six) through May. Then in the stretch from June to October he had the other six.

    Those are, to be honest, really bad numbers for our top player. Which, could be justifiable if the next 2-3 players all had similar numbers. Nope

    Yura: 9 goals and 3 assists. No goals after August (WOW)
     
  19. PattysCow

    PattysCow Member+

    Apr 4, 2010
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    He's definitely trolling phills

    My nickname for him is Yura Meh-vsysian and accurately describes my feelings towards him.
     
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  20. stucknutah

    stucknutah Member+

    Feb 14, 2002
    In the Office
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Well...that was interesting. Not a bad enough loss on paper to be embarrassing enough that even a soccer novice can recognize there are huge problems...but, if you have even a modicum of soccer background, you saw it for what it was, a 100% beat down that could easily have been 6-1.

    I'm hopeful that the front office finally takes a HUGE step and gets with some folks with real knowledge of the game to help them with their off-season decision-making. Unlike the Jazz, RSL does not have a single person in management who understands the game. (We can all pick on the Millers all we want...but they understood basketball enough and had good enough connections to know that Dennis Lindsey was an extremely well thought of asst general manager who was considered by the whole league to be an up and comer.) No-one thought that Waibel had the makings of a great GM. The only team in the league that would consider Cassar for any position above GK coach was RSL. RSL took the easiest route possible, and it shows.

    The decisions need to be made now to jettison the coach and GM unless the ownership is convinced by actual soccer consultants that Waibel has real potential as a GM. Cassar has been tested and found wanting. Once those decisions are made, the new coach/GM can make the key personnel decisions that NEED to be made now.

    The next coach MUST have shown the ability to develop players.

    Side notes on personnel...Javi can only play one position, A-mid, and he is past it. It is unfortunate, but true. I think he is still under contract, so I would see if ANYONE is willing to trade for him. When that doesn't work, he either renegotiates or comes onto the coaching staff.

    I would allow the next coach to decide on Plata and Burrito. We all got to watch Donovan, just back from retirement, off 2 steps, absolutely outwork both Plata and Burrito on both sides of the ball. That is all about coaching, conditioning and expectations. Also, unfortunately, Allen was showing the same problems as Plata and Burrito while playing the same position. Coaching, coaching, coaching.

    With a coach with anything like a clue offensively, I think Yura can be very, very good. The 4-3-3 of a couple of years back was designed with Plata in mind...now our next system probably needs to be designed to get the most out of Yura.

    I disagree wholeheartedly with folks who are asking for Kyle's retirement. He continues to show conditioning and incredible tactical awareness. When we got Sunny, I mentioned that we just extended Kyle's career 2 years. Hell, he even managed to hold down the middle while playing with Luke. If Sunny had not been out for so long, I do not think that ANYONE would be down on Beckerman. Yes, he is slow! He is a d-mid...great speed not required. And, when teamed with a player WITH great athleticism, he is very good.

    Olave - thank you for being the verb. Wingert - thank you for being that peg that could play any defensive position in a competent, average fashion. Both of you, enjoy your retirement.

    With all this being said, based on how RSL handles adversity and opposing opinions, I expect them to ignore all the concerns, circle the wagons, and double down on their mistakes. Maybe when the team fails to make the playoffs next year, things will change. EMBRATSU!
     
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  21. stucknutah

    stucknutah Member+

    Feb 14, 2002
    In the Office
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Plata did not pass the eye test. He was poor with the ball taking on people. He was absolute crap in his off the ball movement. He scored some nice goals when teams forgot about him and didn't bother to mark him. Once he was on peoples radar, he was completely ineffective.
     
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  22. goobx1

    goobx1 Member+

    Jul 9, 2007
    Salt Lake
    Absolutely agree. I would trade Plata, now.
     
  23. Lizzie Bee

    Lizzie Bee Member+

    Jul 27, 2004
    Utah
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    One HUGE problem with this philosophy. Under the right coach, Plata would kill us. I remember what he's capable of and I don't want a well-coached Plata anywhere near us unless he's wearing Claret & Cobalt.
     
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  24. goobx1

    goobx1 Member+

    Jul 9, 2007
    Salt Lake
    Under the right coach Plata gets marked into oblivion every game. We saw it all year. Plata gets man handled every game by any team that's scouted RSL at all. He doesn't get the calls a normal sized player gets and he's not as fast as he used to be.

    One HUGE benefit would be all of the passes he would make to RSL during the games he plays against us.

    Plata is a novelty that wore off. He is a great role player on any team but if you are counting on him to lead your team it aint happening.
     
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  25. nfc1432

    nfc1432 Member

    Nov 3, 2010
    Club:
    Real Salt Lake
    Starters from MLS Cup 2009 also in the 18 last night

    RSL
    Rimando
    Wingert
    Morales
    Beckerman
    Movsisyan
    Bench: Olave

    LA
    Donovan
    Bench: Magee

    RSL 5 starters in both games
    LA 1 starter in both games

    After 7 years half the team is the same as before. I get a couple of those players moved on then came back, but still kind of concerning.
     
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