Rough Play Hurts the Game by Gersman

Discussion in 'Youth & HS Soccer' started by ElRoss425, Feb 28, 2008.

  1. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    I wasn't addressing the OP in this thread from 2008. I was addressing strikermom's question about her daughter dealing with physical play. She just joined so can't start a thread of her own right away.

    If you want to start a new thread, go right ahead, but I don't think a response to a post in 2008 is the way to go.
     
  2. headerdunce

    headerdunce Member

    Dec 19, 2005
    Gotcha, but if you're suggesting her daughter should use Zidane as a role model, make sure to tell her daughter to (1) be ready to defend herself, because players like Zidane are targets for the disgruntled, and (2) practice her headbutts. Seriously, Zidane took a lot of punishment, and he was hardly a saint.
     
  3. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    I used the clip of Zidane as an example of good movement on the ball. Did you read my post?
     
  4. StrikerMom

    StrikerMom Member

    Sep 25, 2014
    Good advice rca2. Thanks!
     
  5. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Tell her to hurt them where they breath do something to win the game. I really doubt that anyone is telling the player to injury your daughter. If they do he should not be coaching and if it is a parent someone should take his kid away from him. If you did hear someone actually say that get your husband to kick there arse, and I mean that.

    The women's game is very different from the men's game. The youth men's game is very different from the men's game. The real men's game is much more physical then the under 19 men's game. They are not looking to hurt an opponent but it is definately more physical game.

    Parents of youth players who have never really played the game at high levels do not have a clue what physical play really is.

    Tell your daughter in a game like that don't take people on unless it is a 1v1 near her attacking goal. Before that pass and move. Don't be in any area long enough to get fouled.

    Tab Ramos got hurt because he stayed in a area of tge field too long. The player that injured him was usually the second defender not the first. Late in his career he would beat tge first defender and would move so the second defender could not get a running start against him.

    So pass and move against a physical team then do something to help win the game. Then smile at them her way of telling them they are to slow to be on the same field with her :)
     
    StrikerMom repped this.
  6. headerdunce

    headerdunce Member

    Dec 19, 2005
    I read it. It doesn't change the fact that Zidane, for all his talent and quick decision making, couldn't avoid being taken out physically on many occasions, and he also dealt his share of cheap shots to opponents. If you want a better example of staying fairly healthy over a long career, Ryan Giggs would be a good start. For a little girl. Mia Hamm would be a good example.
     
  7. StrikerMom

    StrikerMom Member

    Sep 25, 2014
    FYI:

    My daughter scored by intercepting a sloppy pass from the thug defender to the keeper. Only goal of the game.

    "Scouts" were at that game to identify girls for selection into state elite squad. My daughter got an invite - didn't spot thug defender at trials :) .
     
    travelmomnew2soccer and nicklaino repped this.
  8. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Very happy to hear that.

    Good players are targets some can be intimidated from physical play. There was an under 19 year old from BW Gottsche I wish I can remember his name was on the men's national team for a while. He beats his defender and the keeper. He tells the keeper he is not good enough to be on the same field with him. He said it out loud so the opponents coach could hear it that was a bad move. Opponent coach from Gjoa gets mad tells the whole team to slide tackle the player rvery chance they get. You can knock a guy on his ass even doing legal slide tackles. This kid took a beating for the rest of the game. But he just kept on attacking. In the 89 minute he scored another goal.

    He did have a big mouth, but he was a never give up a serious player.
     
  9. What makes me crazy is when parents cry foul after their kid(s) is/are the biggest offenders. if you can't take it, don't give it out.

    My daughter's HS team generally plays pretty clean. One particular away game they were getting tromped physically without one call from the REFs. By the time we got to the half, our girls had enough and started giving back what they had been getting. the home team players started doing acrobatics similar to what our girls had experienced in the 1st half. the home team parents went wild. by the end of the game, three of their players had been taken off on the golf cart and did not return to the game. others were obviously hurting.

    I hate watching games like that. girls hurt because they were taught to play nasty.
     

  10. One top NJ player sat out her freshman year because she was targeted so badly in her 1st HS game. not intimidated but HS soccer not worth destroying her National career if she had gotten injured.
     
  11. jeremys_dad

    jeremys_dad Member

    NYC Football Club
    Apr 29, 2007
    The Big Easy
    Club:
    Paris Saint Germain FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Germany
    #61 jeremys_dad, Oct 23, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
    <-------== THIS CAR FOR SALE


    My thanks to everyone who agrees that calling this game more strictly at youth level in regards to fouling. Here in America with unlimited substitutions, this strictness seems particularly with merit.

    Take into account that many instances are not because a player is so quick and draws one, or bumbling ineptness of a defender, but those willful tackles and hacks made on those very best kids on the team because they are so good. These players bodies take such an extreme amount of punishment strictly because so many referees let so much go by. Only since our son recently switched leagues have I seen shirt pulls and foot stepping called. Good reffing is enjoyable, and should not be such a rare aberration.

    Our nation seriously needs to do more in raising that bar for officiating this sport on a youth level. All other sports officiating seems so much better then ours. That generations growing up playing and watching TV of professional games their whole lives hasn't caught up yet, and imputes need be taken to surmount this aspect. Running and judging infractions across such a wide expanse is truly difficult. Way too many stand around officials. That exponential growth in high caliber club soccer evolving phenomenal players we now see emerging has not had that high level club soccer caliber referee programs growing with it. Certainly school superintendents and principles are not going to make this happen on their own without a lot of prodding.

    Our clubs deserve a mirroring by referee organizations of those European style models and standards. These guys deserve a lot more training money assistance in beginning this vocation, and an ability to earn a more suitable remuneration for efforts. It's a damn hard damn job to do. Perhaps paying them for watching soccer games on TV in a learning environment could benefit. Certainly our officiating organizations emulating America's school teachers evaluation evasion and instantaneous granting of tenure for life will not do The Beautiful Game any favors.
     
  12. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    #62 rca2, Oct 23, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2014
    The referee quality problem is supply and demand. Lots of games and not enough referees. So assignors don't have a lot of choice. Also referees who want to "grow" their license have to take assignments to as high a level match as possible. The lower the level of play and younger the age, the lower the quality of the referee assigned.

    First problem. There is a very high turnover in the first year, so youth matches are going to draw a lot of relatively inexperienced referees. This is a generalization, but most places have a shortage of referees.

    Second problem. Because of the shortage good referees are assigned many matches on the same day. You might not like it, but it is tough on anyone getting up and down the field in the fifth match of the day.

    IMO rough play is a league management and coaching problem to solve. Not a referee problem. A youth match ought to be clean enough that the centers don't have much to do.
     
    bigredfutbol repped this.
  13. bigredfutbol

    bigredfutbol Moderator
    Staff Member

    Sep 5, 2000
    Woodbridge, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I tend to agree with rca; I'm not so sure this is a problem with the refs themselves. It's more likely structural and cultural. Too many soccer parents praise their own kids for being "aggressive" and too many coaches encourage it as well. Refs are often swimming against the tide if they try to call a tight game--and due to burnout and demand being greater than supply, too often the refs who are stuck in the lower divisions and younger age groups lack the experience and the age (they're often just kids themselves) to go up against the "adults" on both sides of the field.
     
  14. ajbirch07

    ajbirch07 Member

    Jan 31, 2008
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm from an area of Michigan where soccer refs are pretty much the same 8 people for both boys varsity and girls varsity. I agree that rough play needs to be policed but I teach my players to be aggressive and to challenge every ball. For the boys its not a problem, the refs recognize the contact as shoulder to shoulder and correctly police it. They recognize if the player lowers his shoulder or stays straight up which I don't have a problem with. The problem comes during the girls season where the rules seem to change. Anything remotely resembling shoulder to shoulder gets called as a foul. Its extremely frustrating and I'm scratching my head to figure out whether to adjust my tactics this spring or to approach the refs in a respectful manner and see why shoulder to shoulder is called differently in the spring. Anybody see this in their leagues/area where boys and girls are being called differently?
     
  15. rca2

    rca2 Member+

    Nov 25, 2005
    #65 rca2, Oct 24, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2014
    It isn't just your 8 refs. Boys accept shoulder to shoulder contact, but girls match up differently because of physical differences. For girls the natural contact is hip to hip instead of shoulder to shoulder due to body shape. So refs allow hip to hip contact in girl's matches that they won't allow in boys, but call upper body contact closer than they would in boys. There won't be a difference for U-littles of course, but it shows up for teens. Like with the boys and shoulders, if a girl gets too rough with the hips, refs will blow the whistle.

    Asking the refs what they look out for is a good idea. And it would probably easier to approach them about the difference now rather than during the girl's season.
     
    ajbirch07 repped this.
  16. nicklaino

    nicklaino Member+

    Feb 14, 2012
    Brooklyn, NY
    Club:
    Manchester United FC
    It is simple go shoulder to shoulder. Then lower the shoulder, and the opponent goes flying its a foul man or women.

    Stick your hip out into a player its a foul man or women.

    Big against little shoulder to shoulder may not be a foul. But it will be called a foul if the smaller player goes flying.

    So how would a smaller player win a shoulder to shoulder challenge? Ever see Bobby Convey when he played? He would go shoulder to shoulder with a bigger player they he would slide tackle the ball away using his near foot closest to the opponent, and not his far foot. He would knock the ball past the dribbers far shoulder. Using the near foot and not the far foot should keep the ball on the field. Then he would get up and win the ball. This is a legal tackle off the shoulder to shoulder charge.
     
  17. Okay, I got sent to the parking lot for the 1st time by a REF. LOL!

    Visiting team was down by 1 and the game turned into brawl ball. Player was taken off her feet and landed flat on her back 10 yards from me. Heard her go thump and could see she lost her breath. She was the 3rd player taken down the same exact way. I yelled at the REF, standing RIGHT there, to "protect the players". I was far from the first parent to yell at her. She asked me if i wanted to watch from the car. I told her I would be happy to if she PROTECTED THE PLAYERS, she pointed and I went to the car. There was only 2 minutes left. LOL!
     

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