You betcha! My kid was starting to get a complex from his DOC as the guy each year was, "Hey D! When are gonna grow??" I told the guy, "Quit telling him that! He's going to get a complex!" LOL Well now he's big, skillful, fast, and has come into his own. And it's nice to see the other guys who have also. What's not so great to see, are the guys my son has played with for years who were always #1 because of their early maturing, and now they are stuggling a little. I feel bad for them.
Ever seen Mike Bradley in action? He is 6' 2", 185, and one of those players with a mean streak, comes in with some rather nasty tackles I must say. As a U13/U14, Mike was the dinky finesse player who got bullied. At any rate, on topic, I do think that youth referees could tighten things up to everybody's benefit. Not to remove physical play, mind you, but to clamp down quickly on reckless/dangerous play, as well as on professional-style fouls. Rapid yellow cards would do the trick, I should think.
What do you mean, who can say? The guy's leg was broken in several places and the ref issued a red card. What more do you need?
A physical team should always keep playing physical, regardless of the sport. Very few sports reward play that is technically sound, but passive. When physical teams play passive teams of equal skill, the passive team will eventually start trying to play more physical. It always seems the referee calls a penalty on the passive team at that point in the game for doing the exact same things the physical team does... I will never coach another team sport at any level without specifically encouraging aggressive play. (I did not say "dirty play.")
I was referring to the foul in the 2003 Dallas Cup. Isn't that what people are complaining about--dirty play? All physical play, unless it is a shoulder-to-shoulder charge within playing distance of the ball violates the rules of soccer, unless the violation is trivial. And if the violation is trivial, is isn't very physical is it?
You must ref my kids HS games. Thats exactly the rule they follow, except most shoulder charges are also fouls. Contested ball in the air? MANDATORY FOUL! What if the ball sails over the heads of both players and lands some yards away? DOESN"T MATTER, THATS A FOUL!
Soccer is a physical sport. Some coaches and parents know this , because they have played the game. The main problem I see is that the refs feel they are God or have the "small man" complex when they ref. They either over/under ref the game. Monkey Boy's comment was right on here. Ref's should just do their job. #1 Your job! #2 Not your job! If you did #1 correct you would not have the problems of #2. Also, you would not have the constant nagging of the parents. Refs are quick to point that out, but don't own up to their mistakes. Parents are quick to nag when the ref decides to not call the game equal. This is correct. This is what coaches/players/parents have seen, and are pissed for. The right way. Every ref is different, but I like the refs that do this. Every good ref I encounter does this, and calls the game equally. Not letting one team foul hard, and and call "tic-tac" fouls on the other team. Rough play comes from frustration, and the "win at all cost" attitude that come from bad coaches/parents/clubs. True....so true! You can't get rid of them because there are so few, and they know this too!! Too many think people come to see them ref, and not see the kids play! Same common problem.....REFs The reason refs are cursed, yelled at, and complain about nagging parents! Nailed it!!!
Why would any ref "decide" not to call the game equally? How can a ref call a game "equally" when parents and coaches always seem to believe any contact by an opponent is a foul and any contact by their team is not a foul? Apparently your refs need to walk a very fine line. You say referees should be much more strict, yet too many think people come to see them ref, and not see the kids play. This is contradictory. [youtube]dYyUWoBbblA[/youtube]
Wow! I like how you chopped up my comments to make it look like one quote! "Parents are quick to nag when the ref decides to not call the game equal. Every good ref I encounter does this, and calls the game equally. Not letting one team foul hard, and and call "tic-tac" fouls on the other team." Please....any ref can call a game fair. So your saying that you call more fouls on a team that complains? They need to just do their job. Refs make mistakes, but sometimes it is obvious that a ref is displeased with a team because the coach, player, or parent has complained about a call. Then they proceed to have blinders on. That is when the team becomes frustrated and the rough stuff comes out. How? Calling the game correct is the right thing to do. Getting butt hurt and start trying to act like "GOD" when someone disagrees with their calls is the bad thing to do. Refs want players to keep playing and not react to a "no call", well refs need to keep reffing when people disagree with them. Bottom line: Rough play(dangerous, intentional) and injuries like Eduardo's will continue, because players and coaches continue to get away with it.
I'm saying if a referee calls a foul he will be blamed for not letting the kids play by the team that the foul was called on and if he doesn't call a foul he will be blamed for not protecting the players by the team that suffered the contact. Any game that was called fairly from the viewpoint of a neutral observer is usually deemed to have been called unfairly by most everyone involved.
Blaming the ref for foul play is like blaming the policeman for drunk drivers. League officials, managers, coaches and parents in the case of youth have far more influence on the players than a ref does. Coaches are supposed to be teaching kids how to defend. Teaching kids to defend by fouling is cheating the kids in the long run.
Excellent point! The best refs are those who are hardly noticed. They set the tone early and stay consistent throughout. This allows the players to adjust accordingly, knowing what is or isn't allowed. The focus then becomes the play on the field and not the what the refs are or aren't going to allow. PV: this is possible btw, I've been able to do it many times while refereeing games. The best approach is to be clear to both coaches before the game about your expectations of fair play, then follow through! A clear warning to a player about a dangerous foul, that next time it will produce a card -- then if you see it again, give the card. Although for some reason in my time as a ref I've almost never needed to use a yellow card and I've never used the red one. Yes, it is correct that a fair ref will not be seen as such by everyone involved, but that doesn't mean that a ref cannot have a positive influence on the game. This is a group of kids on the field and none of them should end up in the hospital after the game. Sometimes it happens, beyond the refs' control, but that's no excuse for not focusing on their #1 job.
Hmmm. In otherwise calm youth games, I have seen multiple infractions that in a professional game would lead to a sending off. The atmosphere was not heated up, instead it was a case of a hotheaded and frustrated player who was getting beaten on the field, and who retailated against the better player with a studs-up, Matthew Taylor type tackle. Never saw a red card given for such tackles, however.
Well I've been fortunate to not end up with such a situation. There's no question in mind though that a studs up sliding tackle at another player definitely deserves a red card. There are just some plays a ref cannot prevent from happening. As rca2 indicated, you can't blame the referee for such a foul occurring, but you can blame the ref for not taking appropriate action. I still contend that poor refereeing can make such plays more likely though. By not taking control of a game early on, it leaves the control in the players' and coaches' hands. Thus allowing physically players to push the limit more and more.
My son limped off the field on the first game Saturday (tournament). He went back in later, but ended up not playing much. When we asked him what happened, he said he got cleated. We didn't ask him where, he normally doesn't come out willingly. BTW: He was also mad that he had to come out, which is the first outspoken expression he has shown as a sign of competitiveness. So that was a high for me. He plays well the second game, but claims he was impaired by the cleating and too much running (playing tag with his teammates between games ). Sunday he gets up and shows us the bruises from the cleats. They are on his upper thigh - perfect tracks going up the leg. I never saw the tackle and I would have said the game wasn't that rough. The whole tournament seemed well reffed and clean from what I saw. The team we played indoor was there and they seemed to be playing clean as well (honestly, we both played rough the other night). While it might have been more physical if we had met, I think the tone the officials were setting would have taken care of that. In other words, I'm blaming the lack of control set by the indoor ref.
Did he get stepped on, while on the ground? If not, I am assuming this is a UYounger game. Too bad that tackle wasn't policed. Indoor game is the perfect situation for a red card. Shock the instigator and observers into understanding that studs up that high is NEVER acceptable. Because a red card is shocking to the little ones. But the actual penalty would be pretty light, because it's just an indoor tourney after all.
Not stepped on and it is U11. The kids weren't complaining of that forearm in the back trick you described the other day (and it turns out the team in the indoor game was doing that) and when we ended up loosing the game, they didn't blame dirty tactics on the other team. So I'm thinking it was just normal lack of control with kids this age. He also wasn't upset at the kid, i.e., he couldn't describe him or tell us the number on the jersey. Both of which are indicators that he thinks the other kid is playing rougher than needed. My best guess is that it was probably a 50-50 ball and the other kid went high to try and get it.
This is wrong. Very wrong. Physical play is ONLY a violation if it contravines Law 12. Law 12 states that for a foul to occur the play must be careless, excessive or reckless. What amounts to careless, excessive or reckless is left to the discretion of the referee. The notion of whether conduct is "trivial" goes not to contact, but other violations of Law 12, such as holding or a keeper having the ball in his hands for seven seconds and Laws such as Law 13 when a player infringes on a direct kick that do not appear to allow discretion by referee. Soccer is a contact sport. The notion that contact "violates the rules" is utterly wrong. It is the degree of contact combined with the method of making contact that may result in an illegal challenge. In other words, you can kick, push, charge, trips or strikes an opponent and it may not be a foul. Referees are game managers, not police officers on the field. Their job is to let the players decide the outcome of the game in a manner consistent with the Laws of the game and safety. This means how the game is enforced will vary based on the skill of both teams.
Actually, the word I should have used is "trifling". Former International F.A. Board Decision 8 to Law V: "The Laws of the Game are intended to provide that games should be played with as little interference as possible, and in this view it is the duty of referees to penalize only deliberate breaches of the Law. Constant whistling for trifling and doubtful breaches produces bad feeling and loss of temper on the part of the players and spoils the pleasure of spectators." The ATR states that "a trifling infraction is one which, though still an offense, has no significant impact on play." Clearly the spirit of the game allows holding, pushing, striking, etc., only to the extent that the offense has only a minor impact on play. Without this concept, practlcally every contact on the field where there was a clear aggressor would be whistled. I am curious as to what types of contact you would deem perfectly legal in a world where the "trifling" clause was revoked and the laws of soccer were applied to the letter.
Just because a kick, push, etc., was trifling or advantage given doesn't mean it was not an offense. I greatly disagree that the spirit of the game allows kicking, striking, holding, etc., as long as the ref doesn't blow the whistle.
I have seen this style of defense too. Anyone who has watched youth soccer sees it. Some teams do it all of the time along with the grabbing of jerseys if a player gets around you. It is so prevalent with some clubs it has to be TAUGHT.
Every once in a while, my 12 year-old daughter comes across one of these thug defenders. The kind where it’s as if the coach or dad have given her instructions to injure my daughter. How should she handle this situation to avoid getting seriously hurt?
Get stronger and quicker. Quickness comes from core strength and good movement technique. Better first touch. Better off-the-ball technique. Like blind side runs for instance (can be running behind the defender's back or just simply running when they turn their head away--either is effective). You set the blind side run up by moving into a position where the marker cannot see the ball and you at the same time. Don't stand still. Move to receive the ball. If they can't catch you, they can still grab the shirt, but that isn't dangerous. Girls play differently than boys. A lot of lower body contact vs. upper body and arms for boys. So running dynamics is important while dribbling the ball. Not like track. Knees slightly bent so body is lower and balance is lower and more centered for cutting. Exception is for acceleration (need to drop into the intial 45 degree acceleration position and drive the legs). The first steps are important because that is where you put distance between you and the marker. This is what perfection looks like. The defenders are trying, but he doesn't let them get to him. Always moving away from them into space.
Rough Play Hurt the Game? IMO Yes. At the youth level it definitely hurts the game. For youth players technique and later tactics are critical. We want to encourage dribbling/passing/proper tackling etc. Winning is not everything. Rough play is not necessary at the youth level. I watched some u12 La Liga games on-line and AC Milan and many other great clubs in the world. (Just google Cadet A video la liga for those interested). Fouls are very rare. There is definitely not the craziness that goes on with a lot of u 12 rough play in the US. It is not necessary to teach the "dark arts" of soccer to youth players. I'm only going off of personal observation of my kids games and I was a ref for five years about 10 years ago. Based on that, my sense is that the coach sets the tone. If the coach has an overly-aggressive kid, he needs to teach the kid to use the aggression within the rules. Sit a youth player to cool off. Too often I see teams where multiple players are shoving kids at full speed in the back (saw an 11 year old get his arm broken last month like this) or kicking wildly or doing shirt/short pulling. When multiple players on a team are doing this it is definitely the coach's fault. The coach will say it's just being tough and they need to learn but why do Real Madrid and Barcelona players not do this at the same age? They develop infinitely more players than the "gold level/state league whatever" It is coaches trying to win. Easier to teach rough play than a passing game. Refs are part of this. At youth level, safety really is paramount. They should call high kicks, pushes in back that are dangerous and anything else that could lead to injury more tightly than with college or pro level. The refs need to call games fairly tightly, especially if the game gets heated and they are dealing with kids just fouling. In my state, there are some good refs without a doubt, but too often the refs lack the courage to give out yellow/red cards. Fans were mentioned as causing problems. They do. It's tough to be a ref with many idiotic, passionate parents yelling at you every moment. Coaches need to talk to their parents repeatedly to go easy on refs. It is a weird dynamic at youth soccer games, because the parents are right on the sideline and the refs can usually hear all the remarks unlike a stadium environment. I sympathize with the refs. they need more and more training. Probably need to pay them more to keep good ones and encourage others to be refs. Very tough job.
Without doubt Zidane was great. But he was known for standing his ground and, as we all know, he believed in retaliating with a good, strong headbutt on select occasions. It's becoming a less physical sport at the pro level due to tighter calls, but it remains a physical sport with injuries being common. Having said all that, I agree with the premise that calling the game tighter at the youth level is a good idea.