A few more... Zico Lev Yashin Figo Recoba Raul Desailly Dino Zoff Fernando Redondo Roy Keane Of course I hope that Messi can lead Argentina to World Cup glory in 2014, scoring in every match and then a hat-trick in the final vs Brazil. I'm sure he daydreams about this kind of stuff every day. The best player deserves to play on the best team because then he can fully show his potential. Too bad that can't always be the case with national teams. National teams can't buy players, you just have to accept your national team and the time you live in. Right now Argentina aren't that great, and that's just too bad for Messi. But who knows, maybe the team will improve. I do agree that it's impossible to say who the best of all time is. This kind of question will never be answered and who is to say who the best of all time is anyway? We are simply arguing about what factors should be included in determining who the best is and that's where we disagree.
You clearly have zero clue about what you are talking about if you would ever even think about the possibility of Recoba being better than Ronaldo or Messi. I'm actually speechless. Good job.
Maybe you forget that Recoba was the highest paid player in the world at one time, yes he was THAT GOOD, but was often coached more by his medical staff than by his coaches. It's not laughable at all. Some players have just that bad luck with injury. He's one of them. But I agree, if you can't stay on the pitch you can't be considered a legend. I did forgot somebody that in itself is a laugh but.. nobody could take the ball from him... Valderrama! he's top 50 for sure
Surely Santos 60's were not even close to this Barca quality overall, even we ignore the so called "weak" era as separate issue. Pele played with great NT , true. but the caviat is that he DID great there with no excuses/12goals+8,9ass/14games are no joke for any great playmakers even with a great team. Look at Rivelino, Zico, Ronaldinho, or Rivaldo Neymar ... stats compared to him just within the same Brazil NT as orange to orange for now. I had stated this so many times but let's repeat for you here that Pele has left many legendary records that no one had come close just yet (as many reasons) besides the fact he was a great player: * The following are things that were bound by his name only" 1- 11topscorers 2- 10 leagues titles 3- Best player in every competitions/leagues big and small (Topscorer Copa, topscorer libertadore, best player WC ... ) 4-Won almost everything (except copa) 3WCs, 2 libertadore, 2xintercontinental cups. 5- Won WC at 17 with a sensational performance 6goals+2ass/4games (from bench) 6- A great stat at intercontinental cup never seen: 5goals+3ass/2games 7- Arguably the highest stats in goals for a forward/playmaker career: 643goals/656games ~1GPG 8- holding the LONGEST worldclass years of all time >12 (depends on criteria) 9- The only one player with 1000goals accepted by FIFA (pro level_) 10- the only one with 3 WCs under his belt 11- the only name appeard as #1 all time in 90% of all list available ... and more ... ================================================ Now you can start crossing any item when Messi meets or breaks it (or ever will???)
So the media chose Messi who is (by your account) not as good of a player and looks like a weird hobbit to make into a superstar? Not Ronaldo, who's one of the best-looking players in the world. All of his popularity is earned by his work on the field, not any media hype? Honestly, that's just really silly. How many shirtless pictures of Messi have you seen? If Ronaldo looked like Carlos Tevez or Frank Ribery, I doubt he'd sell as many jerseys. He stopped Ronaldo, didn't he? If Ronaldo is the same player for Portugal than for club, then it does not speak well of him. When surrounded by less talented players, especially without creators like Ozil, he looked very underwhelming and toothless. That isn't Messi's fault. He's already in that discussion, so I guess you're wrong. The difference between Cruyff's era and today is that folks alive today have probably only rarely seen Cruyff play, from old highlights. Messi and Ronaldo's feats are much more documented and will be watched for generations. Even if Messi never accomplishes anything with his NT, he'll be considered among the greats by anyone who watches him because he's simply the better player in almost every, single respect. I guess if barbershop "best ever" lists really matter to you, then this is important. But I don't think Messi really has to worry about his legacy. If his legs were cut off tomorrow and he never played again, he'd still be in the discussion of the greatest ever. People would lament that he didn't accomplish more and that would be a discussion perhaps, but he is already mentioned in the same breath as Pele' and Maradona. No one being serious elevates C. Ronaldo to that level. Is this about whether or not Messi will be among the "best ever" or whether or not he's better than Ronaldo. The goal posts seem to have shifted.
Actually, I'd say Messi is a much better shooter than Ronaldo by miles. His left foot is simply absurd and he routinely curls balls into the top/bottom corner from anywhere in the box. Unless you're limiting criteria to being able to shoot really hard, I think Messi is clearly a superior finisher. Honestly, Ronaldo's shooting technique is not even elite among players today: off the top of my head I'd say Van Persie, Thierry Henry possibly even Rooney have better shooting technique than him. I also don't know why people consider Ronaldo to be a dead ball specialist, either. Messi has him beat there, as do several others. And that's really the thing, if you look at several criteria: passing, long passing, control, dribbling, beating players, dead ball situations, riding tackles, vision/playmaking, shooting--Messi is either at the very top or close to it in all those categories. You can't say the same for Ronaldo. There are many better world class passers and play-makers than Ronaldo, for example.
The quiet superstar is what I've been talking about all along. Yes people do not like C. Ronaldo as much as they like Messi due to off field issues... Am I taking crazy pills? Am I the only one that saw that 0x0 game in which Puyol didn't play because he wasn't in the Spaniard NT since he was injured? Ronaldo did it at Man U also... who's fault is it that he hides behind the corner flag during Competitions for WC? If he has another bad world cup... he doesn't win a tournament with Argentina... no he won't... He will always carry the stigma of... He'll always be the choker that can't win a WC and can only do well with a stacked team in Barcelona. People always think the best ever plays in their era because they get to see him every day.
For those who don't follow hockey and baseball, both the Edmonton Oilers and San Francisco Giants won a championship soon after Gretzky and Bonds left those respective teams.
Not even "LOL" worthy. It is truly remarkable the way some people actually think. To call Messi replaceable is just.... just..... Again, my words have failed me here.
See the problem with this LOL argument here is... Torres won UEFA and the WC with the same supporting cast as Messi's... TORRES!!!! let me repeat that... TORRES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! then they decided.. you know what.. we don't even need that random ass position of striker.. let's remove it and still win the knockout stages of the Euro. TORRES!!!!
I would like to change this topic to.. Who is better.. Ronaldo Messi or Torres?! I would say Torres does a better job getting out of the way and letting his team win, he did a great job at it during 2 Euros, 1 WC and even at the club level in the CL! When he decided to help out and went into the starting squad after Chelsea traded 95% of their team to China, he got on the way and they have been losing ever since. But between that 2008-2012 period.. he was the best striker the world has ever seen not play!
Same argument could be made regarding Pele since Brazil won a WC without him in 1962. So Pele was replaceable.
do you really know what you're talking about? Brazil NT went Sh***** just as Pele got chopped off the leg and could not play ...
How nice that you ignored my comment of Brazil winning the WC without Pele while at the same time arguing Messi needs his Barca teammates to be good and win. France 98 was subpar without Zidane??????? They had one of the best defenses if not the best in the world at the time and one of the best defenses in WC history. Something Messi does not have with Argentina.
I love how its now " messi didn't perform well in world cupS!!11" (plural). I only remember one world cup where he did not play well. The other one he did great and then Argentina were eliminated when he didn't play. When Pele doesn't play and Brazil lose (or even win) , its proof that he's the greatst evah!1, but Messi misses a game, ARG lose and its a poor WC for Messi. Plus he was 18, I mean please! Did anybody here even see Pele play live? GTFO with this nonsense!
Cristiano Ronaldo is a really Good player who has his qualities and scores Many goals But he is not messi Messi wins more , Contributes more to the team, play makes etc Higuain doesn't play because he'd probably score just as much or more than Ronaldo (like in 2009-10) Benzema plays instead who is a much worse striker but will Guarantee Ronaldo tops real Madrids goal chart Higuain on Argentina has been allowed To flourish and form Devastating partnership with lio messi Messi will lead Argentina to world Cup glory in brazil Ronaldo is on the wane, as seen this season
How far did that defense take them in 2002? how about 2006 when the team looked a lot different? Playing the results... they won so their players were amazing.. when the reality is.. they won because Zidane is amazing and they had a really good team, but without Zidane they were not likely to win the WC. Pele played in the 1962 WC he was knocked out during the WC, it's not like he didn't step into the field like you're claiming. Then 1966 WC he also played but the team around him was not aging.. but straight up old.. That's why the team looked 100% different 4 years after in 1970. And for the Messi part.. until he proves it to me.. he's just a great striker on the best team, but outside of that little comfort zone he has and is idolized... He usually steps into the field for his big NT games pisses on his pants from being nervous, then slips on his own urine and as he falls on his ass he pukes in front of the uniform and chokes on it. I actually believe there is video of this happening during the WC right before the Germany game... Come on now.. King Messi quickly found out that curling shots don't work against NT GKs in his first game in the WC.. and he also found out that on a NT competition.. you can't run with the ball and stay up... It's not a bunch of refereeing from Europe filled with Barca fanboys that will give penalties at the sight of Messi being touched in the box.
But he did play in 2 out of 3 games including the "do-or-die" match against Portugal. The same arguments against Messi also apply against Pele. Unless you re-write history as you seem to be trying to do...