So what do you all think should be our goal at the WC? For me it's surviving the group stage. After that it will greatly depend on our opponent.
Well I have a running bet with a friend on whether Belgium will make the quarterfinals (I said yes, he said no). So I believe in you guys. But it really does depend a great deal on the draw, and surviving the group stages is a good goal for a team as inexperienced on the international stage as Belgium.
In Belgium's World Cup history there have been many weaker squads than the current 1 ... in our last 6 successive apps (from 1982 to 2002) all but 1 managed to progress beyond the group stage while luck was seldomly on our side. A focus on the collective has often been the default setting to survive the group stage and then get (un)lucky in the KOstage against Argentina, Brazil, Germany, etc. The 1986 squad which reached the SF is often used as a comparison ... yet besides a tough defense and a thorough organisation there are few similarities ... do you feel that the current squad has come together? If the current squad had about the same level of quality as previous ones, I'd agree that surviving the group stage would be a good goal. Yet managers at elite clubs and on the international level beg to differ ... this generation is unprecedented. When pundits create a hype and start lauding our squad as a possible candidate to lift the cup, I'd quickly dismiss that brand of mediacircus praise ... yet the consensus amongst serious insiders = QF or better is a realistic objective. If we're eliminated in the group stage or R16 ... that generation consisting of Kompany, Vermaelen, Vertonghen, Dembele, Mirallas, Fellaini, ... which reached the semi-finals in Beijing2008 is looking more and more like a lost one. At club level these guys have matured a lot ... together with younger guys like Courtois, Hazard, De Bruyne, Lukaku, Benteke, etc. they thrive in Europe's biggest leagues ... I'd claim they've gained valuable experience against some of the strongest opposition around. With our "older" guys in the back and our speedy younger guys up front ... age is spread where it's needed most on the pitch. Also being young isn't always a disadvantage ... especially when it comes to fatigue & recuperation ... while heat & humidity are endured better too. Players that lack recent WC history have written their own during previous WCs ... what would your arguments be other than having no WC experience beyond qualifiers. Success in the qualifiers means that we can book our tickets to Brazil ... on top of that we landed a seed. What can we expect next? As far as the draw is concerned a seed is as good as it gets ... with the level of quality in this team, QFs or better is a realistic objective ... would you feel that our team performed well if eliminated in R16 or worse?
I am absolutely with Wilmots regarding Januzaj. Let him play for England or whatever. We have heaps of talent ourselves. We don't need a player who is not sure in which country he belongs at the age of 18. Funny really!
A handful of facts about those little Belgians: - Belgium's national team value according to transfermarkt.de is 344 million. Only five teams are valued higher. - Belgium's last competitive defeats is vs Germany (2011). You need to go back to 2010 to see a competitive defeat to a "mediocre" team (Turkey). - Belgium's players play in top teams from top leagues. The normal starting 11 plays in Atletico Madrid (2), Manchester City, Tottenham (2), Zenit St. Petersburg (2), Manchester United, Chelsea (2) and Everton. Substitutes come from Bayern Munchen, Liverpool, Porto, Napoli, Arsenal, ... - Belgium was the third best scoring nation in the Premier League after England and Spain: 69 goals - the average age is 25,1 years old, no other major national team performs better - ... *I c/p'd these facts from one of our neughbours to the North. We can also look at what happened in previous WC qualifiers. Besides age, our team being in disarray is a major factor why our players lack experience beyond qualifiers. Looking at the past 18 months or so ... do you feel that the team has finally come together? Aside from getting results, I saw a decent team in the period before the last 18 months too ... the quality has been there, yet we had to wait on the results ... could very well be that pessimism has lingered regarding our the results that our team can achieve. In the 2 previous World Cup campaigns the Belgian team/association was at fault (going through a major reorganisation while very young talent was slowly finding their way into the squad) ... still the stiff competition in the qualifiers is partly to blame: - S.Africa 2010 = Belgium didn't qualify in a group that included: Spain, Bosnia & H., Turkey, etc. (the Turks just had peaked/reached semifinals of Euro'08) - Germany 2006 Belgium didn't qualify in a group that included: Spain, Serbia & Montenegro, Bosnia & H., etc. ... even Spain finished in 2nd place. It happens too often that very decent teams do not progress beyond the European qualifiers. The Dutch had one of the best teams in 2002 and would have been a real contender (please go for a little google). The legendary squad, that included Cruyff, should have even stayed home in 1974 (when the referee made a decisive error). This would have been an incredible loss for the world of football. Mind you I'm NOT saying that we had a young Cruijff in our squad in 2006 or 2010 ... we did however have plenty of exciting prospects making their first apps. If I remember correctly the German squad in S.Africa was also the youngest and least experienced there ... still those youngsters were a breathe of fresh air ... Germany was the only team that had a string of attractive games at a very tepid WC.
I think the whole thing seems more than a little fishy in all honesty; his father sounds like he's trying to play games with both Belgium, England, Manchester and other teams as well. First thing we hear is that Januzaj will play for Belgium, if he gets into the World Cup squad, but he won't play the crucial qualifiers leading up to that. Why? My guess is that they want leverage: i.e. if he played for Belgium against Croatia/Wales, Wilmots could easily leave him at home for Brazil without worrying about another country snapping him up. Wilmots then says he won't be pressured into selecting any player for those reasons (though I suspect this isn't really the case, given the Bakkali situation). Then all of a sudden, word comes out of Januzaj's camp stating that they now want him to play for England. Not Albania, not Belgium, but a country he's been living in for 2 years. His dad has probably had a look around. Albania isn't at the World Cup, Wilmots refuses to give any guarantees about Belgium, Kosovo isn't recognized yet by FIFA. So they start to try to talk to the English media about Januzaj playing for England. What follows: a)Wilmots may call him up for Brazil to ensure he's cap-tied (unless Kosovo get recognized after the cap-tying) and b) the hype around Januzaj builds and builds in the English media. Don't forget that they haven't agreed yet to a contract extension with Manchester United yet. If the most touted young player in England leave Manchester Utd for another team like Barcalona or Juventus, the optics would be terrible for Moyes and the United board. So he may feel obligated to give him a larger contract than warranted (especially because of the Paul Pogba debacle). Okay that's a lot of guessing and conspiracies for now, but I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't further twists in this annoying saga. Oh and just to piss you guys off some more, Andreas Perreira, a big 17-year old talent born in Belgium, who's played for Belgian youth teams exclusively has now declared Brazil to be the only national team he wants to play for. Ugh.
To me whoever represents his country needs to have some patriotic feeling about it. In case of Bakkali he opted for belgium without much farse. What januzaj is doing is 'playing' around with the FAs of different countries. I am telling u its a dangerous thing for his career.
His father wants him to represent Kosovo, from what it seems to me. But Kosovo are not eligible in FIFA right now and probably won't be till they get nationhood and Russia stops vetoing them at UN. Beyond that they are not sure, but Albania seems to be favorite. His father said yesterday that he wanted no guarantees from Belgium, and they seemed upset with those reports. The England stuff is probably nonsense made up by British press as they can't bypass the residency rules so easy anyway. Will be a whole furore unless he wants to wait till 2016 or whatever and even then they'll need home nations permission.
According to FIFA rules he would need to wait at least until 2018. That won't happen. At this point it'll be Kosovo (if/when they get their own team) or us I think.
Couldn't agree more ... considering that the media have played a major role in creating the controversy and are milking it for every penny ... it isn't worth losing your temper over. Also a Januzaj thread already exists: https://www.bigsoccer.com/community/threads/the-adnan-januzaj-thread.1991319/page-10 Finally the qualifiers aren't the end of the road ... next stop isn't even the play-offs but a friendly vs Colombia. Also on Monday the draw for the play-offs ... of the 4 that qualify during the play-offs, 1 most likely ends up in a special pot (cfr 2006) and can't end up in our group. Especially having a look at which teams France & Sweden will meet in the play-offs.
Last 8 would be a good result. Last 16 ok, depending on who we meet there. Anything past the quarter finals would be fantastic, but I'm not counting on it. However if the team keeps improving like it has done the last 12 months who knows? We are actually starting to look like a team rather than 11 talented individuals. And if we can find a decent right back: Cavanda or Meunier maybe? The other side of the story is that we are very reliant on a few players (especially Witsel). If they are injured/out of form we'll struggle. Up front I can only hope Benteke will be in form because in the group stage as seeds we will probably face some very defense-minded teams and then you really don't want Lukaku. We also have a lot of players in the premier league at top teams who'll probably be exhausted by the end of the season...
If Mexico, Uruguay, Portugal, France, Greece, Croatia, Nigeria, Côte d'Ivoire, Cameroon, Ghana and Algeria grab their Brazil tickets ... this could be the pots that we draw from: Pot 2: Japan, Australia, Iran, Korea Republic, Costa Rica, USA, Honduras, Mexico Pot 3: Nigeria, Côte d'Ivoire, Cameroon, Ghana, Algeria, Chile, Ecuador Pot 4: Netherlands, Italy, Russia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, England, Portugal, Greece, Croatia *if France = "special pot team", they'll go to a C-BOL seed while Chile & Ecuador can only be drawn into a "UEFA group" and the first CAF teams that are drawn will be put in "C-BOL groups". => hoping Ghana is one of the first 3 CAF teams that's drawn (can't end up in our group) and Chile is drawn into another UEFA group.
WOW, how modest you are being. Over on the USA forums some posters firmly believe the US can go as far as the semis! And I think Belgium is far better.
With respect to the US, but that is insane. I am not saying that it is impossible for the US to go so far, but so many things would need to go your way that it's crazy to assume it'll happen.
Batshuayi scored also I like Vossen but I watch Genk quite a lot and he does struggle as a lone striker. He works hard but his first touch is mediocre, he has no pace, is not particularly strong. I think Wilmots will prefer batshuayi or Mboyo for that 3rd striker spot. Personally I would take Vossen though, as a 3rd striker he will play limited minutes anyway and probably will only be used as a joker late in games. Vossen being Belgium's best finisher could be of value in those kind of situations.
New selection for Colombia and Japan announced: Vossen, Meunier and Nainggloang make the cut. No Ferreira-Carrasco or Michy B. Sensible selection IMO. Let's hope Witsel doesn't have to forfeit. I hope that the first half against COL we'll see the A team and some new guys will get their chance second half. Gillet out Ciman still in
Ferreira-Batshuayi apparently are too important for the u-21 squad. (who have a massive qualifier against Serbia). Bakkali & Casteels also figure on the u-21 list. Good to see Vossen/Nainggolan again. I expected Cavanda but Meunier is not a bad choice. Cavanda apparently had negative reports concerning "bad behaviour"... Vanden Borre is also an option at right back. He was absolutely teriffic in his last 3 games. Obviously though 3 games is not enough to warrant a call up. Ciman is still a mystery to me, especially now he's terribly out of form, and also because we already have 5 other central defenders in the squad. so redundant
I'd almost like Wilmots to change to a 3 center back defense ... like a few clubs, Liverpool for example, we have many CBs so it makes sense using 3 instead of 2 CBs (actually I'm seeing more & more clubs using a 3 centre back system although they usually have wingbacks that drop back to either transition into a 4 or 5 man backline) ... e.g. Wilmots could opt for 3-2-2-2-1 when attacking with the 2 most defensive midfielders in front of the 3 CBs - 2 wide men - 2 that play more freely in the middle of the park/can go wide too and a traditional target man up front. So 2 creators and 2 wingers behind the lone centre-forward that keep up the tempo and the whole team playing further up the pitch, pressing hard from the front to win the ball back as quickly as possible. We have plenty of players that can play wide or move to the middle ... playing off each other and creating chances ... they could be really dangerous and use a more traditional targetman like Benteke to e.g. bounce the ball off or to hold up play (offensively you'd increase your options considerably and with enough training it's only natural to find more & more holes in the opposition's defense) ... even in the popular 4-2-3-1 the CF is often less dangerous than the men running forward (like chelsea, our strength lies in these players either creating chances/holes or scoring themselves and we can expect more to join in the near future) ... Lukaku on the other hand becomes a threat when he has room to run at the ball or receives the ball in the box (great on the counter or with crosses flying into the box yet has a hard time when play is more compact ... so you'd still have to use him differently). Januzaj, Carrasco, Bakkali, etc. would fit in perfectly together with KDB, Mirallas, Hazard, Mertens, Chadli, etc. In any 3 center back system Kompany should be in the middle with Vertonghen/Vermaelen to his left and Alderweireld to his right ... even when all are in form I don't feel that Kompany, Vermaelen & Vertonghen would be the ideal 3 CBs unless we have a natural wingback on the right that can push Kompany to the center in defense ... we need Cuadrado). Still we don't have wingbacks ... yet at club level Fellaini seems to prefer to tuck in as a CB which could work at NT level (pushing either Vertonghen or Vermaelen to the LB position in a defensive phase while the 3 other midfielders focus more on defensive duties ... e.g. Witsel & Dembele breaking up play/blocking passing lanes + KDB & Benteke pressing high in the middle while Hazard & Mirallas do that on their flank to force back passes/prevent counters/regain possession while we transition into our defensive shape). Nevertheless all 3 center back systems require smart players and a chemistry/routine which is hard to achieve at NT level + Fellaini has difficulty settling in as a more defensive minded player while he shines when linking up with the attack. Dembele has often asserted that he likes a more defensive role yet I don't see him tucking in as a CB or LB while defending. If you're really desperate: wingers could be converted into wingbacks that play high up the pitch ... dropping back to a FB position & getting cover from the CBs when defending ... but this is also worse than having CBs filling the FB spots. You can't afford to make many mistakes when a quick transition into in a defensive phase is required. By now it's too late for big experiments and except for our FBs our defenders feel more comfortable in a back 4 system ... it's strange to go against what they grew up with anyway ... 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 are the safe choices. If the wingers track back after pressing high into a compact 4-5-1 + our FBs get support from the CBs and midfielders to cover the exploitable holes in defense ... we should always have a numerical advantage and a solid defense while still having a decent amount of options when attacking. PS Montella's Firenze team shifts comfortably between a 3 center-back system and a 4-man backline which has been proven effective when going up against the popular 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 ... a few other Serie A clubs also opt for 3 central defenders ... contrary to Fiorentina this has little to do with 'state of the art' tactics but more because they lack quality FBs ... in future we might consider revising our back 4 too but I don't think Wilmots will ever go for non-conventional tactics. I feel that most managers will have a good idea of what Wilmots has in store for them ... still I hope to see a few pleasant surprises in Brazil.