Revs 2016 Roster, Thread III

Discussion in 'New England Revolution' started by patfan1, Apr 12, 2016.

  1. patfan1

    patfan1 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Aug 19, 1999
    Nashua, NH
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
  2. a517dogg

    a517dogg Member+

    Oct 30, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    So @RevsLiverpool is saying, we need to spend DP money on the 2nd coming of Emile Heskey.

    :D
     
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  3. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Davies has been distracted this year (you mentioned twins in the NICU - valid reason). He didn't forget but until he, shall we say, remembers, the revs will average a goal per game which isn't good enough. Nguyen needs to step it up too.

    You're perhaps forgetting Giovinco DID score - and that's all it takes is 1 goal, deflection or not. Even if the revs shut down Kaka, Shea is still a beast. When he plays OCFC wins. Then there's defending set pieces. I just don't see the revs getting a result there.
     
  4. pwykes

    pwykes Member

    Apr 18, 1999
    Auburn, MA
    The thing is even Twellman wouldn't be the answer. He wouldn't thrive under Heaps' tactics. He was always more effective playing with another forward. I think Heaps is as much to blame as the lack of talent for the Revs scoring woes.
     
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  5. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Couldn't agree more. Heaps won't change it up though so I was trying to think of who would be a better fit up top than our current forward corps.
     
  6. Jon Martin

    Jon Martin Member+

    Apr 25, 2000
    SE Mass
    I couldn't agree more.

    I also agree that If Twellman were coming into the league now, he would do better with, say, Houston, than with NER.

    If we stay within the confines of past MLS players, I see Robbie Keane as the player who would kill it as a Rev.
     
  7. rkupp

    rkupp Member+

    Jan 3, 2001
    To be fair, Heaps doesn't have a Ralston (or a close approximation). The tactics are due, in some part, to the fact that we don't have classic wingers.
     
  8. rasoccer

    rasoccer Member

    Mar 4, 2014
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    I think it is fair to question Heaps' tactics. I just wanted to point out that Agudelo has had one stretch of his career where he looked like a true USMNT player instead of a talented prospect. That was when he was playing under Heaps in 2013. Unless my memory is off, it was basically the same formation with Nguyen in support and Fagundez on one of the wings. I think everyone, including Juan, wants to know where that player is and I don't know if partnering him with another forward will make a difference given his form.
     
  9. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What about Tierney's "cultured left foot"? ;)
    I agree. The tactics are completely different from Nicol's.
     
  10. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Fair point but since he can't get much worse, why not give 2 strikers a chance to compare?
     
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  11. BrianLBI

    BrianLBI BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 7, 2002
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This. For a modern data-driven organization, we have very few recent data points on this. What might this say about Heaps' regard for his lineup as a whole? Will our possession crumble with two forwards? Will Caldwell be exposed as a latter-day Pat Phelan if we play a 4-4-2?
     
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  12. teskicks

    teskicks Member+

    New England Revolution
    United States
    Jan 14, 2002
    Wrentham, MA
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If the revs play with two forwards who comes off the field?

    Caldwell?
    Kofie?
    Farrell?
     
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  13. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #13 RevsLiverpool, Apr 15, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2016
    Take out Rowe.

    Something like a 4-4-2
    Shuttleworth
    Tierney-JoGo-Farrell-Watson
    Caldwell-Koffie
    Diego-Lee
    Davies-Bunbury (or even Diego up top and Teal on the wing)
     
  14. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The revs have been outpossessed 4 if their 6 matches so far this season. One of the 2 games they had more possession was in Philly, where they lost 3 0. The other was against DC where they had 18 shots but rarely even hit the net, let alone score. If we correlate possession with results, that's 0 goals, 0 wins and a single point. Not good enough.

    So FWIW, I think Heaps is misguided if his goal is outpossessing the opponent since his tactics haven't been successful this season and the mediocre record shows that. Time for the revs to stop pretending they have enough quality to pull off the lone forward and try something different.
     
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  15. SamSam

    SamSam Member

    Feb 26, 2009
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't think you want Lee out on the wing, so my preference would be a diamond 4-4-2 with Lee at the top:

    Davies-Agudelo
    Lee
    Diego-Bunbury
    Koffie
    Tierney-JoGo-Farrell-Watson

    I'm not sure how you keep Caldwell in the diamond 4-4-2. I'm not sure a traditional 4-4-2 would work for the Revs because I think you want to Keep Caldwell and Lee central and you only have Davies and Agudelo who are actually forwards.
     
  16. a517dogg

    a517dogg Member+

    Oct 30, 2005
    Rochester, NY
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    I think Bunbury would not do well as a shuttling midfielder in a 4-4-2 diamond. I think, in a diamond, that Koffie could be the base with Caldwell a shuttler or vice versa. Rowe could also be an effective shuttler.

    In order to get the width from a diamond we'd really have to push the fullbacks. Watson is fast enough to get back and defend against a counter but Tierney is not, so we'd be very vulnerable to counters. Although we could try Donnie Smith at left-back with Tierney as a shuttling midfielder, with Diego as a forward when either Agudelo or Davies is injured (i.e. often):

    Davies-Agudelo
    Nguyen
    Tierney-Caldwell
    Koffie
    Smith-JoGo-Farrell-Watson

    Alternatively we could try a 3-5-2, with either Tierney pushed or held

    Davies-Agudelo
    Tierney-Nguyen-Diego
    Caldwell-Koffie
    JoGo-Farrell-Watson/Woodbury

    or

    Davies-Agudelo
    Diego-Nguyen-Bunbury
    Caldwell-Koffie
    Tierney-JoGo-Farrell
     
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  17. Revs in 2010

    Revs in 2010 Member+

    Feb 29, 2000
    Roanoke, VA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Given our depth at mid, I really have a strong preference for your last option. This also takes a lot of the producing pressure off Lee, who strikes me as a poor choice for the top of a diamond (not quick enough getting the ball distributed).
     
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  18. Mike Marshall

    Mike Marshall Member+

    Feb 16, 2000
    Woburn, MA
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    All of this kind of lends support to the theory that the Revs don't build teams, they collect talent.

    "See good player. Sign good player. Figure everything else out later."

    It still bugs the crap out of me that they've got one of the best crossers of the ball in the entire league, and they've never given him a target forward who's any kind of threat to score with his head.
     
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  19. SamSam

    SamSam Member

    Feb 26, 2009
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lee is the ideal guy or the top of the diamond, he's the creative number 10 playmaker who sits between the defense's back line and midfield, think Higuiun, Kaka, Javi Morales.
     
  20. VTSoccerFan

    VTSoccerFan Member+

    New England Revolution, Vermont Catamounts, NCFC
    United States
    Jun 28, 2002
    Cary, NC
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lots of good comments. I wish there were better statistics. Is the possession stat still based on completed passes? That is if the Revs complete 100 passes, but the opponents complete 150, then the Revs have 40% possession, but the opponents had 60%? If so, it is really unreliable.

    It is not necessarily possession, but I would be interested in seeing a stat based on where the ball is? Which half of the field, which quarter, or which third? That would tell you where the ball is most of the time and could help identify exposure.
     
  21. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    He's too slow on the ball.
     
  22. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Who would that be? You can't seriously mean Tierney?
     
  23. BrianLBI

    BrianLBI BigSoccer Supporter

    Sep 7, 2002
    New Hampshire
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Not sure about that, though in his current role, he does exhibit that tendency. It would require the two forwards to make decent off ball runs - it seems to me that Lee's always waiting for them to happen, and gets closed down.
     
  24. SamSam

    SamSam Member

    Feb 26, 2009
    Club:
    New England Revolution
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm not sure I get why Lee being too slow on the ball right now affects his ideal position being the 10 in a 442 diamond. Is Lee slower on the ball than Higuiun, Kaka, Javi Morales?
     
  25. RevsLiverpool

    RevsLiverpool Member+

    Nov 12, 2005
    Boston
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Lee tends to dwell on the ball too long as he thinks about his next move. The revs forwards rarely make good off ball runs. Combine the two and you have a dysfunctional offense in the final third which will continue until Heaps pulls his head out of his and properly diagnosed the scoring problems.
     

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