Revolution Stadium Groundbreaking "12-24 months" Part XV

I agree with most of what you wrote. But I will disagree with your point about the Kraft's "break-even" strategy. Bob Kraft is the poster child for American greed. The last time Forbes released their estimated profit (loss) for the MLS teams; they had the Revs net profit for the year at $7mil. Which is an amount greater than the Revs total payroll. You can also look at the Patriots, whose payroll is among the lowest in the NFL and they have the highest ticket prices in the league. It's great to own "businesses" that operate in a monopoly.

 

is this the first time we have ever seen them do this in such a public manner?

 

Interesting. They want us to know they really, really tried this time. Heck, they even redesigned the stadium so the teachers union wouldn't have to move.

But the "reasons beyond their control" were clearly political, which they should have been dealing with from the start.

 

Well, if we're to take Kraft pere et fils at their word regarding the "fully-funded, privately-financed... full-value land lease" nature of the soccer-specific stadium development that they were prepared to undertake at the former Bayside Expo Center site, perhaps it is time for Bob and Jonathan to touch base with the powers-that-be in the municipalities of Boston, Somerville and Revere regarding such a project at sites like Widett Circle, the Inner Belt district, or Wonderland.

After all, if "fully-funded, privately-financed... full-value land lease" is the Krafts' current offer, perhaps one of those moribund projects could be successfully revived.

And if "fully-funded, privately-financed... full-value land lease" has always been on the table, than the Krafts are truly either the most unlucky - or, reviled - pair to ever try to play the development game in the Greater Boston urban core.

 

So....they have a set of renderings/schematics. Looks nice.

Having some of those out there earlier maybe would have made it more "real" and (perhaps) generated more vocal and more broad-based public support. Which in turn could have had a different effect on the responses/reactions from public officials that ultimately lead to the collapse of this deal. (Or maybe not - maybe this is just another unavoidable casualty of gravitational pull of the sh_t vortex that is circling UMass Boston more and more these days.)

Releasing the renderings only just now has the feel of water under the bridge.

One take one this is that Krafts only resorted to releasing the renderings when they started getting defensive about this news hitting the major media channels. Seems to be at least somewhat consistent - the Krafts tend to unleash the really big really cool stuff (a stadium rendering, or the one big/real DP) only after the air cover has been stripped away. Not sure why it has to be that way for them.

...but in the context of this most awesome and endless conga line of Stadium threads, keep in mind that today is actually one of the only major "real" stadium milestones, ever: actual renderings released by the Krafts!

 

You sir have put everything I feel into words. I love the Revs and been here since the beginning but the feeling that they will never ever amount to anything in the Boston sports landscape is total! I see better advertising for the upcoming Roma match than for the Revs and I am in Ct. It is starting to break my heart.

 

My guess is Kraft was angling for a sweetheart deal and UMB/Walsh didn't feel up to the political flack for giving it to him.

If Bob plans on building a Boston soccer stadium in his lifetime, and I kind of doubt he does, he better start looking around Newmarket.

 

I know you meant Newmarket, by the South Bay shopping center. But at some point MLS is going to wonder whether the Revs should move to New Market, USA.

 

The MLS version of the article (above) on the Revs site:

http://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2017/...ew-england-revolution-stadium-proposal-update

Found this in the comments section:

 

In Kraft's defense, he wasn't able to get a stadium for the Patriots in Boston either, nor have the Red Sox been able to build a new stadium, and it took the Bruins 15 years to build a new privately funded arena, constructed right next to the old one. Lets face it, Boston is difficult to work with.

 

It is, but the bigger thing is no sports team here is ever getting money for a stadium. What's happened is various con jobs have been snuffed out. The Red Sox were the worst. They tried to claim Fenway was in imminent danger of collapsing.

 

Weeks later and I'm still incredibly angry and sad about this deal being dead.

 

Yes, Boston is a political mess to work with. But not as difficult as DC, and somehow United were able to pull it off. Could it be because they actually tried very very hard to pull it off?

 

DC is difficult politically but there was an ideal location of dramatically underused land just sitting there waiting to be developed. The location they were after was a no-brainer. Boston is much more difficult to free up a appropriate parkl of land.

 

Yes, now it is. The timing sucks. If we believe the revs, Menino didn't want a stadium so that was why they looked in Somerville/Everett. Now, Walsh is more open minded to the idea but there aren't many decent parcels of land. The one by Umass-Boston would need the circle to be fixed and that has been a problem for how many years? Add to that the Southie pols are complete close minded assholes.

Perhaps a stadium inside the city limits of Boston is just not in the cards. Maybe the revs need to look at parcels off the commuter rail not the T?

 

KraftyKorp has a stroke of genius: how to build the cheapest biggest stadium by commuter rail in history...... Pay to extend the commuter rail to Patriot Place....

 

Well for example take a look at the area around the Sharon train station on the Providence line. The adjacent area is all forested. There are some homes nearby but if the stadium is set back far enough, it may be something to look at.

In terms of transportation, it's just an easy 30 mins from South Station by Commuter Rail. I can't imagine those trains would be super busy on a Saturday afternoon making it easy for hundreds of revs fans to get to and from the game. Yes it's not urban but there's your public transit. It takes at least 30 minutes on the T in a good night so that shouldn't be a big deal.

In terms of accessibility, it effectively accomplishes the same thing as having an urban stadium and doesn't make it difficult for people like me who would drive anyway.

That's just one of numerous examples of commuter rail accessible parcels outside Boston. Maybe the Krafts need to think outside the T.

 

There's really no point if it's not on the T. The idea is to have it somewhere that allows the fan culture can spill into the city, something that can be like the Fenway/Kenmore during a Red Sox game. As a city dweller, taking the commuter rail out to Sharon is a non-starter. It's more hassle and expense than it's worth.

The stadium doesn't have to be in a hot spot at first, but it does need growth potential. The parcel near the Broadway stop was a good idea. Somerville was a good idea. Revere has some locations with potential. The Newmarket area has highway access and SoWa's hipsterism is spreading in that direction. Plus, the Andrew station on the Red Line is a fairly short walk (no farther than p10 from the current stadium).

 

In an ideal world it would be on the T but this is Boston, one of the oldest cities in the country. If it hasn't been spoken for by now, good luck. What are the remaining options? Maybe Newmarket? But even that would involve redevelopment of the retail shopping plaza which a lot of people who live in the city rely on.
Besides, in terms of convenience don't you think people living in the suburbs see going into the city the same way? Getting to Fenway or the Garden from the west during the week can be a huge pain in the ass but to see baseball or hockey or basketball, I suck it up and go.

The reality is the revs' new stadium will probably never have the same feel as Fenway on game day. I went to the Timbers' Providence Park and that was the closest MLS stadium to a Fenway experience (that I've been to). Directly in the city, easy walk to numerous bars, good access - it's really an ideal spot for MLS. But that stadium was also built in 1924 and converted into a soccer stadium. It's just never going to happen in Boston - at least not anytime soon without some luck and political willpower behind it.

Look at other east coast cities as case in point. RBA is surrounded by wasteland yet on the edge of Newark and an hour train ride from 8 million people. I'm sure they thought about potential but there's not much happening in the immediate vicinity of the stadium.

NYC FC is playing at Yankee Stadium because they haven't been able to secure their own SSS and the league has a hard on for 2 teams in NY and LA. But realistically, land in NYC is even harder to find and more expensive than here so good luck to them.

Philly was built in Chester, PA, an hour train ride from Philly. DC was playing in a condemned shithole with rats running around until very recently when they got in on a part of the city the mayor wanted developed anyway.

North of the border, Montreal and Toronto did a nice job finding land and building their stadiums within the cityscape. Especially Toronto, the exhibition is a great spot to have a stadium.

My point is that type of land simply does not exist in the city of Boston. Every greedy developer and his brother knows the local billionaire is looking to build a soccer stadium in the city and is going to play hardball to get the land. Add to that uncooperative pols, NIMBY and no public money. It's why the pats and sox have failed in previous attempts to get new venues in the city and why the Garden was rebuilt within a few feet of the old one.

I hope I'm wrong about this but with the public release of the renderings I feel like that's Jon Kraft waving the white flag on a truly urban stadium.

To be clear I am not arguing a commuter rail accessible stadium is ideal - but it provides what Gillette lacks, access to professional soccer for car-less people living in the city. It would sell out fast, there's no question. If someone considers a half hour train ride from the city to a beautiful new SSS too much of a pain in the ass, they should buy a car or just enjoy the games on tv.

 

I thought Gillette was commuter rail accessible based on earlier comments? I tried googling it and it said Patriots games and major events. Do the Revs not count as a major event?

 

Unfortunately, no, they don't. Kraft is trying to get a permanent commuter rail stop in Foxboro. Maybe he is hoping Revs fans will join the cause.

 

That can't be the real proposal for Tom Brady Field at Dunkin Donuts Stadium. I don't see 10,000 Patriots' logos in there.

 

Suppose a stadium is built in the suburbs that is a 30 minute commuter rail ride away from Back Bay or South Station. For folks on the green line this can still be a commute of over an hour.

Suppose there was a 7PM game and the train left Back Bay at 6PM. If I still lived in Cleveland Circle I would walk to the Reservoir stop and take the D train to Back Bay. That means I walk 10 minutes and the wait X minutes for a train. Then I have a 10-15 minute T ride to Copley. Then I have a five minute walk to Back Bay. That means I leave home at 6PM minus 25 + x minutes to get there at 6PM. So I would probably leave home between 5 and 5:15 PM. That gives me 1:45 before the game, a two hour game and then 1:45 to get home (assuming the train leaves 30 minutes after the game). A five hour and thirty minute experience. All the while, you would be held hostage by the one train there and the one train home.

A stadium on a commuter rail would be better than nothing, but it could not compete with one on the T, would not draw city fans based on the time table above, and would offer a similar experience to the current one at Patriot Place.

 

Oh, there's a question as to how quickly it would sell out. The team averaged 20,185 last season. So far this season it's 14,894. It'll pick up with better weather,, but Gillette has bigger attendance nights to offset games like the one they just played on Saturday. And why would Kraft pay the money for a SSS that can't make up for its slow nights with bigger nights?

I don't think a suburban SSS moves the needle much on attendance. Commuter rail doesn't do the trick. If you're car-less in the city, you're not going to the suburbs. At least no significant group of people will. I have T access down at the end of my street and I prefer not to drive. Yet there's no way I'm dealing with a commuter rail transfer. If you don't live in downtown Boston, and not many people do, it's beyond impractical. For most people who live along the T, it's more than 30 minutes just to get to South Station (not counting waiting time for your train to arrive in the first place). It's almost a complete non-starter for anyone for who lives along the Blue Line.

That's all before you factor in a healthy cushion in making sure you catch your commuter rail connector and the commuter rail ride itself. Might be two hours door-to-door for a lot of people.

Side note about Philly-Chester: the train time to Chester is immaterial (though I think it's well under an hour - I've ridden that line from a few stops up in Ridley Park). Walking a city block in Chester would qualify as a daunting challenge if they ever do a Fear Factor reboot. Scary place.

IMO, the setup the Revs might be wise to look at is the Impact and Stade Saputo. It's right on the Metro, though not in a bustling area of the city. It's right next to the Olympic Tower, the Biodome, the botanical gardens and a cineplex. So supporters clubs can congregate a few stops away and hop on over to the stadium.