Video from recent Southern California 01/01 Development Academy game. It looks like the near-side AR is in control.
Not sure what the first conversation was, but the second was pointing out, multiple (3?) punches into the ribs while #18 was pushing through being held. Was red right? punch is a punch,
The first conversation seemed to have something to do with the parents. Not sure what the point being made here is. Sometimes ARs have to become involved. Perhaps this is an AR who is over-involved, perhaps it's not. But a 2.5 minute clip of a 90-minute match isn't going to tell the whole story. I will say that the DFK itself is a good learning clip. It looks like there is definitely one and possibly two penalties committed as the ball is sent in. Hard to be sure with the camera angles and only a single look, but even if everything was clean, the referee's position and his attention isn't good enough for the situation. I would guarantee he had no idea what transpired between #18 red and #47 black.
The fact that AR2 was savvy enough to see those punches is crazy awesome. I kept having to look for what happened then saw the punches after three looks. DAAAAAAAANG, eagle-eyes!
Mass Ref is correct about his positioning on the restart. He is too far to the right and has about 7-8 players on both teams out of his field of vision. If he positions himself beyond the far Post he would have been able to see the jostling. I will say it is extremely rare to have the trail AR inform the Referee of a red card worthy foul from nearly 50+ yards away when the action occurs where the referee could have seen what was going on. Also, the assistant had to see the holds, no? Also, in a stadium that has stands why are the supporters allowed to set up camp 5 yards off the touchline on the camera side of the field? That makes for big trouble. What was the restart?
Hold on. #18 red was the one sent off for VC and it was for the incident in the penalty area? Hmm. Given where the sent off player was by the time the red was issued, I had presumed AR2 alerted the referee to something off-camera. Interesting that it was actually the incident I was referring to. On the one hand, it reinforces my point about positioning and confirms that the referee needed to be in a different place. Because this isn't something that should be coming from AR2 if it doesn't have to; there's much more credibility if the referee is making the call here. With that being said, I now have some difficulties with this call. Not saying it is objectively wrong, because when you look real closely you can see what the AR saw. But--as my initial assessment obviously shows--on first look I see more of a penalty because the grab is obvious. You have a situation where the attacker is thrown to the ground, the defender shows no real reaction to the perceived punches (unless you want to say his throwing him to the ground is retaliation), and in the end everyone gets up and moves on. Perhaps, in this situation, just letting play go would be the right move. Issuing a red card here based on the input of AR2 is a very tough sell. And that goes back to the lesson of positioning for the CR--if this is in his field of vision the whole way, he can determine best what really happened and make the appropriate decision.
Great pickup by ar2. I must say i know it's late in the game, but i wasn't in love with the CR's body language. It's chippy and 1-1, and this whole sequence deserved more intensity. I thought his recovery on the long ball was slow (he did glance back to look at the defender on the ground who was in some pain) and i would like him to be running crisply to the spot of the foul. After he sets the fk, it’s walk walk walk. AR2 gets his attention walk walk walk goes to give red walk walk walk. As Massref and Rufus point out, i think there is a general idea of positioning on free kicks and corners, but gracious you need to see as many of the players entering the box as possible. Cr was pretty tight and central, and was visually fixed in one direction. i wonder if he had been more present and conspicuous about keeping everyone in sight, perhaps the attacker doesn't feel empowered to make those punches. But it is an object lesson to see as much as you can as the other side AR. I once was AR1 on a college ladies' spring game where a defender stomped on the achilles of an attacker after a ball went out for a corner- it occurred on the end line just inside the PA on AR2’s side. AR2 had a bunch of bodies in the way, and CR was heading toward the top of the PA so it was behind him. It was unusual to make a call from so far away when two refs were near the situation but we got it right.
To the question about fan seating - this game was played at Francis Parker School in San Diego. This is a multiple use field, and the stands on the near side are a long way from the field. https://www.google.com/maps/place/F...254f90d4f8717!8m2!3d32.7719097!4d-117.1768858
I thought about the fan's seating was pretty close, too. I always insist on a good 9' minimum, if there's room. Everybody sticking their legs out to relax while checking their FB account, letting toddlers wander around and all that. I otherwise feel like I'm going to missing something because I'm watching my peripherals too much. I'm old, I run a crooked line. League rules state "6 yards, minimum." I let it slide, usually to around 9 or ten feetses.
I'm somewhat uncomfortable picking apart someone's clip who hasn't asked for it (at this level, anyway) - but I think there is something instructive in this for many of us. (I was actually just reviewing a clip for a friend from a recent game that had many of these same moments.) I think you're exactly right that he's missing intensity throughout the FK process, and that translates to a sense of control to the players. There are also some mechanics that we can see and all remember for our own games: --Right after the caution, when you have defenders and attackers mixed (beyond the spot of the foul and the 10yds) and with dynamics that seem like you have an intense game, he leaves to talk to the near-side AR and turns away from the field for the entire time. Backpedaling would have kept his eyes on what mattered; the AR can meet him if he doesn't make a perfectly straight line. --What happens at the setting up of the FK? He counts out the 10yds, then he goes and has a talk with the kicker, then the kicker picks up and moves the ball... maybe 1/2 yard? I'm not sure what the goal of that was or why he's doing it after setting the wall. --Then he strolls (with his head/body up, which is good) into an approximate position, blows his whistle and then keeps walking. You're taking all the time in the world, so set your position. I appreciate that our role is to avoid increasing the intensity of the play, and sometimes you want to do deliberate things to reduce the intensity. There are tools for that, and slowing down can make sense. It's just finding the right balance that shows you're aware and focused on what's going on.
It's an interesting point made by @Rufusabc because the DA Referee Manual is surprisingly very thin on anything having to do with fan/parent issues. To my knowledge, the only even indirect reference is when it says that non-rostered players must sit on the "sideline" rather than in the technical area. I suppose you could interpret that dictate to mean that everyone who is not allowed in the technical area needs to be on the other side of the field (since the "sideline" obviously has to be the one without the technical areas). But in a situation with stands behind the technical area, that doesn't make a ton of sense. At the showcases, since the technical areas are back-to-back with adjacent fields and barriers prevent fans and parents from behind on the technical area side, things are easy. But given the varied natures of field setups around the country, it's not as clear during regular season matches. The bottom line is I don't think a referee crew has power here to insist parents and fans are in the stands. It would be nice, of course, but the DA Manual doesn't seem to give the referee team that right or power. By way of a war story, I a U18 DA match a few years ago for an MLS club. A small contingent of the supporters' group from that club came and had drums and were engaging in chants. They set up behind one of the goal lines--several yards away from the net and not interfering with play by any stretch. The away goalkeeper didn't like it and complained. My crew agreed and wanted me to intervene. My point was twofold: A) this is supposed to be preparing these players for a professional environment and this goalkeeper would have to deal with much worse if/when he played at D1 college and on a pro team and B) the Referee Manual didn't ban fans from behind the net and I had no real recourse if I went to the home team manager if I tried to intervene (and would probably only make problems worse for myself and the match). Obviously, if parents/fans are too close to AR2, we have every right in the world to insist they allow AR2 to comfortably do his job. But moving them to the stands in this particular situation doesn't seem like something the crew would have the power to do.
I think AR2’s involvement before the free kick is very problematic. It’s 1-1 in the 85th minute and we have just had a hard foul with a free kick coming in a decent position. Unless a murder had occurred on the touchline, I’m not calling the Referee over. And, nothing actually seems to happen. Very weird. Since it was a pointball field, the original foul was about the 25 yard line, give or take a couple of feet. The ball is definitely moved up 2-3 yards during the walk off. Don’t know what AR1 is doing during the walkoff, but It’s hard to speculate who noticed the ball being moved up. Hopefully it’s the AR. The referee got caught looking back over his shoulder on the initial long ball. He is flat footed and is very late turning on the jets to get up Field. With a foul like that, I would isolate the offender, take my time with the card, and hope the temperature goes down a bit. Then, compose, set the ball, wall and get in my position. You’re adding time anyway, so taking YOUR time in a 1-1 match is certainly within reason. A lesson for all of us that width is good! You can see more, and maybe a penalty would be given. About crowd control, NFHS spells out the referee’s responsibilities to the spectators with regard to distance from the field and not being allowed behind the goal unless in bleachers. I had a sectional state final last year in a cow pasture with no bleaches with well over 1,000 people in attendance and we had hundreds behind the goal becaus e you couldn’t see standing 10 deep on the touchline. Nightmare.
The rules and regulations mention a restraining line at least 5 feet beyond the touch line and outside the (penalty area although the actual document is blank after the - a misprint or typo I believe). It does not say which side although as you mention and it is standard enough practice I think the side with a technical area is not the side line. Also as you say this does not allow us to ask them to sit in the stands if the stands are further than 5 feet away, and actually if stands are further than 5 feet away on both sides of the field as "sideline" isn't defined we can't insist on a side either. The post season guide it speaks to referees warning spectators: but only in the post season guide, so are we not to warn them in regular season games? Seems some tidying up of these documents could help us all out.