Referee Assignment Announcements & Discussion [Rs]

Discussion in 'World Cup 2014: Refereeing' started by SouthRef, Jun 10, 2014.

  1. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Only if he plans to call the match from Argentina.
     
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  2. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Couple other of those pattern things I saw on another site...

    Since 1978, the WC Final referee hasn't come from the host confederation. That's kind of amazing to me. Host country, I knew; but not even the host continent? That seems like more than a coincidence.

    1982-1986 was the last time the same confederation got the WC Final referee.

    If these sort of things matter, they are the sort of statistics that argue against a UEFA or CONMEBOL referee now. A few years ago, I believed they mattered a great deal and I'd be saying this means Geiger (or Irmatov) is the favorite. Now I'm more of a convert to the concept of these unwritten rules or patterns being regularly broken. So I still think it's Eriksson, but it's food for thought.
     
  3. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Well, maybe he should based on that other thread about replay. :whistling:
     
  4. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I haven't opened that thread since it first got posted. I'm not missing anything, right?
     
  5. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    If Argentina wins tomorrow it gets tough. Eriksson is a deserving choice but when you look at MassRefs stats it is not a given. Also Sweden is fairly close geographically and culturally. Cakir on a GER-ARG final would have worked better IMO.

    And if it's true about Irmatov and Argentina... well then...
     
  6. kayakhorn

    kayakhorn Member+

    Oct 10, 2011
    Arkansas
    You're just missing the same thing over and over.
     
  7. pr0ner

    pr0ner Member+

    Jan 13, 2007
    Alexandria, VA
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isn't that the point of replay? :p
     
  8. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    Not a thing . . . .
     
  9. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Isnt this pretty much what happened last time an African ref got the final?
     
  10. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    No. Belqola, in 1998, had two first round games. He also had at least one fourth, I believe.

    And Gassama is already home. He left while only working a single match. Meanwhile a few reserves did half a dozen 4ths each. It's really perplexing, particularly if you're grooming Gassama for 2018. And especially given you trusted him with Netherlands v Chile.
     
  11. USSF REF

    USSF REF Guest

    Sometimes I wonder if refs do things off the field with referee administration that we don't know about.
     
  12. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I'm sure that happens, but I don't see how it would apply here. They iced him for 26 games, gave him a big whistle, which he did well on, then didn't use him again and sent him home. If he did something off-the-field early, he would have never got such a big game. And if it was something later, it still doesn't explain why he sat around for nearly 3 weeks without being used at all. It's a small footnote in the appointment process, but the scarcity of assignments for Gassama, broken up by one rather massive assignment, seems one of the most interesting factoids to me.
     
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  13. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    So
    Some African media outlets reported that he was initially assigned US/Germany game, but that Germany objected. I think, like the Bahrain ref, that he might have been slated for two games at the end of the first round. That would also make sense of Irmatov's appointment to the game (and possibly even opened up Haimoudi to do the Belgium game). If that is all true, that still makes the lack of 4ths puzzling before that, but takes away a bit of they mystery at the end.
     
  14. code1390

    code1390 Moderator
    Staff Member

    Nov 25, 2007
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I heard it was Doue that the Germans rejected.
     
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  15. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Possible. And who knows how accurate that stuff is anyway? The report I read (on some South African Sports Writter's blog that I'm feverishly searching for now) said it was Gassama and that the supposed beef was assigning an English speaking ref. I by no means am vouching for the credibility of that report...just one possible explanation for they mystery of Gassama.
     
  16. RedStar91

    RedStar91 Member+

    Sep 7, 2011
    Club:
    FK Crvena Zvezda Beograd
    How can teams reject referees? I have a hard time believing that. Is this college soccer?
     
  17. NHRef

    NHRef Member+

    Apr 7, 2004
    Southern NH
    But don't they all speak English? I thought that was a requirement.
     
  18. AndyMead

    AndyMead Homo Sapien

    Nov 2, 1999
    Seat 12A
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Yeah, there was a bit of a scandal at one of the Women's College Cups in College Station where one of the semifinal refs did the final when it was obvious to me that someone else was slotted for that spot. I asked someone afterwards and was told that one of the two teams objected to the woman who was originally scheduled to do the game. If I recall it was all a little unseemly, but the details have faded with the years.
     
  19. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #694 jarbitro, Jul 9, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
    My understanding of the process used in previous WCs (based on 3rd hand rumors and 4th hand accounts, mind you) is that the head of the referees (this time Busacca) gives the potential assignments (before they are published or even given to the referees) to an excom member or referee adviser for that particular country/confederation. Sort of like running it up the flag pole to gauge reaction. Remember that Busacca needs those votes to keep his job. In most cases they are obviously well received. I don't think anyone in the world (other than Busacca) has any idea how much pushback he does end up getting, as most teams would probably prefer to avoid that kind of news. But in a few cases it appears that a country feels like it has something to gain by leaking that info. Maybe sympathy points as a form of gamesmanship? Maybe making sure they avoid a referee they particularly dislike in future rounds (the brilliance of Argentina griping about Irmatov way before the final!). Maybe they are just stupid.

    Its interesting to me that it seems like Argentina for example has made it known that they are much happier with a UEFA ref vs. a UEFA team than a 2nd tier ref from a neutral confederation. I mean they have had that three times in a row...in other words almost every time confederation neutrality was broken in the knockouts forward has been with ARG (the other exceptino being MEX/NED). Wonder how that plays out into the final (if they get there).

    I think this system makes sense, assuming it is not abused. Its not possibly in anyone's best interest to have an assignment made that is then skewered by one team (as in a UEFA ref put on a UEFA team and the South American team freaking out in the media). So running the assignment by some key people before going public actually gets Busacca more freedom to do things like break confederation neutrality than if Argentina found out at kick off who their ref was.

    I'd imagine if a country objected repeatedly they'd be ignored. And I imagine if they object publicly (like has been leaked a few times this WC) that they forfeit the privilege of hearing about the assignments before hand. Thats obviously wild speculation w/o any basis in first-hand knowledge whatsoever.
     
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  20. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sure, but there is a difference between a referee who knows "hello" vs. a referee whose native tongue is English. I have no idea if the Gassama rumor was true, but if so it makes sense that assigning a referee whose mother tongue is English to US vs. Germany could be perceived as unfair. I am also part of the camp that thinks this is why the Mexican referee did not get the final in the 2010 WC, and instead they got Webb who obviously couldn't communicate effectively with anyone!
     
  21. Lucky Wilbury

    Lucky Wilbury Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    United States
    What would you rather happen if you're an administrator? The teams get a private screening of the referee assignments and lodge any protests to you quietly, or the teams find out about the assignment when the public does and they lodge their protests publicly in the press?

    The former gives the impression to the public that the process is independent since there are no assignment changes after the fact. In a tournament where the public theme has been "the fix is in for Brazil", Referee assignments sure do seem "pure" to the public.

    The latter allows for that one random picture from ten years ago to finally surface where a ref is wearing a Man U jersey before he's assigned to do RVP and the Dutch. Or Chicharito and Mexico, etc, etc.

    If you're FIFA, you don't want to have to wipe the egg off your face and go back and change the assignment. That is then the story. If the adminstrators launched their assignments out into the public without some internal process, then there would be several cases where referees were dragged through the mud for things that are no more than trifling, at best.

    Tsapos in 2007 suddenly got the Women's Final that Woo was "supposed" to have. He also did the Men's final the next week that he was already tapped for.
     
  22. socal lurker

    socal lurker Member+

    May 30, 2009
    I'm dubious that English would be a real issue with the Germans -- I would guess (anyone who knows more, correct me) that the majority of the German players can communicate in English.

    Which also raises the fact that Klinsman publically objected (referencing lanugage, in fact) after a referee was asisgned -- a bit odd if countries had the right to object to appointments that the US would have refrained from objecting and then done so publically.
     
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  23. jarbitro

    jarbitro Member+

    Mar 13, 2003
    N'Djamena, Tchad
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    True...but what Klinsman said was almost more effective than objecting. He did oldschool gamesmanship on the referee. The goal wasn't to get him replaced but to get in his head. Maybe he should have tried that with Bradley.
     
  24. cleansheetbsc

    cleansheetbsc Member+

    Mar 17, 2004
    Club:
    --other--
    It would explain why Klinsmann threw out the BS line about the Algerian referee assignment tothe US/Belgium match and his speaking French potentially with the Belgian players. A bit of an irritated poke at FIFA and double standards?

    By the way, he was fairly strong in the US/Belgium match. Could he see the final if its an intercontinental final?
     
  25. MassachusettsRef

    MassachusettsRef Moderator
    Staff Member

    Apr 30, 2001
    Washington, DC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    For Netherlands v Brazil he was in the mix, I would think. But Germany did eliminate Algeria, so if that matters, he's out.
     

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