Red Devils Rising - Past & Future Squads

Discussion in 'Belgium' started by Blondo, Sep 23, 2013.

?

Red Devils are ...

Poll closed Sep 23, 2014.
  1. Rising

    8 vote(s)
    80.0%
  2. Falling

    2 vote(s)
    20.0%
  1. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    U17s qualified for Euro 2018 in England ... Group C: Republic of Ireland, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Denmark, Belgium

    Belgium will face Ireland in the opener on 5 May, Bosnia 3 days later and Denmark in the final group game on 11 May.

    U19s eliminated, ending up behind France and Spain
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_UEFA_European_Under-19_Championship_qualification#Group_6_2

    U21s edging closer to qualification after their 3-0 victory over Hungary
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_UEFA_European_Under-21_Championship_qualification_Group_6

    Still have to play Malta and Hungary (both away games) in September and we end with Sweden (away) on 16 Oct.
    The top four teams of EC2019 (U21) qualify for the 2020 Olympics in Japan.
     
  2. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Six out of the nine players that have won every trophy possible are Belgians.

    "... there are 9 winners of the Olympic Gold who retired from football before 1930 (and hence could never have played in the World Cup) who won every trophy that their nations and clubs could possibly win:

    Oscar Verbeeck, Joseph Musch, Georges Hebdin, Émile Hanse, and Robert Coppée won Olympic Gold with Belgium, and the Division d'Honneur (Belgian league) and the Coupe de Belgique with Union SG.
    André Fierens won Olympic Gold with Belgium and the Division d'Honneur with Beerschot - for the duration of his career (1919-26), the Coupe de Belgique was not contested."
     
  3. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Our U17s already have qualified for the quarters as group leaders. Seeing Holland have won their group we'll face either Spain or Germany.

    Jeremy Doku is viewed as one of our greatest talents yet he has hardly been used at the U17 EUROs. Leaving our best talents on the bench is a recurring theme in our youth teams. You don't see that in teams like Spain or Germany and we don't exactly have the same depth as larger countries.
     
  4. Gorando

    Gorando Member

    Mar 12, 2008
    Belgium
    Club:
    Juventus FC
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Doku is only 15 while most players are 16-17. Thiery Siquet though is putting out fairly defensive lineups with not much creativity.
     
  5. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    He'll turn 16 in a couple of weeks though but yes he's a year younger than Mpie.
    IIRC it was Browaeys who made some odd choices at the WC in Chile.
     
  6. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Facing Spain in the quarters on the 14th ... who trampled Germany 5 - 1 in their last group game ... Doku started in ours and scored the winner:

     
  7. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Knocked out title holders Spain ... Spanish goalkeeping, lmao ... Italy in the semis

     
  8. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
  9. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Nainggolan ended his career as an international, Fellaini will quit after Russia, Dembele isn't getting younger and often rested so he can give his body time to heal (might join Witsel in China) and now Defour ... what's next Bobby? ... maybe start a feud with KDB?

     
  10. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    New FIFA ranking method:

    https://resources.fifa.com/image/up...orld-ranking.pdf?cloudid=jgxjkdrj1jfwyunjbkha

     
  11. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
  12. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Also won it in Belgium back when he was a very young and very promising goalie. Only turned 26 a couple of months ago and if he has Buffon's longevity he still has a decade and a half ahead of him.

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    LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  13. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Even though Courtois is still quite young his career is very impressive. Already Belgium's best goalie ever, for me, especially now that he had a big hand in Belgium's top World Cup finish.

     
    LouisianaViking07/09 repped this.
  14. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    did they base the Golden Glove mostly on cleansheets or saves or goals against average or a mixture of the 3?
     
  15. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    The FIFA Technical Study Group recognises the top goalkeeper of the tournament based on the player's performance throughout the final competition. It's more subjective than basing it simply on stats.
     
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  16. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    what did you guys think of Kompany? was it a great decision to keep him despite only playing in the knockout rounds?

    I kinda feel for Ciman. He probably would not have played though.
     
  17. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    but what do they determine it on? That's my question. Like in the PL, it's based on cleansheets. But the Goalkeeper in the Team of the Season might simply be chosen due to saves+cleansheets. I think in La Liga, they do saves against average.
     
  18. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Even though Ciman is well-liked in the team he made quite a few individual mistakes when playing for Belgium in recent years. Kompany is a natural leader and still quality, good to have him with the team, but like Ciman he isn't getting any younger. Boyata did well in the first games, can't really complain, but I wouldn't have minded taking Denayer. We'll need fresh blood and preferably faster defenders because our opposition will try exploit it in case we don't start bedding them in soon. Our experienced defenders could help the new guys and also imprint a winning mentality, taking pride in our team. AFAIK Ciman said he hasn't quit Belgium but he doubts if he'll be called up again. In case he decides to stop he deserves a proper farewell.

    In la Liga you have the Zamora trophy (simply the lowest "goals-to-games" ratio) but also the LFP award for the best goalkeeper. The latter is more like the World Cup one I guess, not only based on 1 stat or multiple stats, but a broader assessment which will include subjective valuations of a goalie's performance throughout the season or, in case of the WC, tournament. In his last la Liga season Courtois was top, amazing stats, CL final, cup final and Atleti broke the RM/Barca duopoly (Spanish Champions). He did win another Zamora but not the more subjective LFP award. You could argue they got this one wrong. Same with World Cup one but in Russia Courtois did present a strong case.

    Messi didn't have such a strong case for best player in 2014 but this year I can't say Modric shouldn't have edged out Hazard. Had Hazard edged out Modric that wouldn't have been controversial either though. It's subjective. For me, it was Hazard but I'm happy for Modric. He too deserved the award and seeing they were in the final it's good that at least one Croatian player was given a prize. Just to say these individual honours are somewhat subjective and in the end aren't all that important.
     
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  19. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    #369 Blondo, Aug 17, 2018
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018

    1030479115730776065 is not a valid tweet id

    Andreas has been called up by Brazil. Martinez was testing the waters but it isn't to be. We could have added a bit of depth, especially with KDB's injury, but seeing Andreas is over the moon with the Brazil call-up it's better to close the chapter (even though he can't be locked down in Brazil's upcoming friendlies). Tite said in the presser that the fact Andreas has Belgian citizenship, he actually called him a Belgian, weighed into his decision to call him up (he also called him a rightback, lol).

    Somewhat of a shame, having been on Martinez's radar for so long (even expressed his admiration for Andreas in a few interviews), and Andreas's dad doing his best not to burn any bridges with Belgium. Contrary to the restraint shown by his dad Andreas made it clear, quite a few times even, that he felt more Brazilian and dreamt of playing for Brazil for as long as he can remember. Andreas should have declined call-ups to the Belgian youth teams. A bit opportunistic not to. Same story on club level, couldn't wait to dump the club that was helping him to develop as soon as his head was turned. With Brazil's resources and their enormous talent pool it's a head-scratcher that they're after a player born and raised in Belgium, with a population probably smaller than the margin of error of Brazil's estimated population and an FA making only a tiny fraction of what Brazil rake in. Why import Andreas? Can't they develop such a player in Brazil any longer? Scared of another Thiago?

    Luis Oliveira did make a different choice. Yet he had been living and playing his football in Belgium while Andreas never lived nor played in Brazil. Brazil weren't exactly in need of Oliveira, he was unwanted. Belgium gave him a chance instead and the French media called him the worst player of WC1998. In Andreas's case, OTOH, Belgium showed plenty of interest and he even was part of our youth teams. When a player isn't good enough, there's no interest in calling him up, you don't have much reason to complain, and TBF Brazil didn't mourn Oliveira's choice. Just to say Oliveira's case is a far cry from the Andreas one.

    A Belgian playing for Brazil, how times have changed.
     
  20. ra_sriniketan

    ra_sriniketan Member

    Jul 5, 2010
    Forget him. Move forward.
     
  21. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
  22. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    Laurent Ciman left MLS. Moved to Dijon in Ligue 1.
     
  23. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    Looks like 16 Pro League clubs have outspent the 18 from the Eredivisie again. At the start of this decade, the first 3 seasons, the Dutch were outspending the Belgians but that gap was almost bridged in 2012/13. In each of the last 6 seasons Belgians clubs have spent more.

    The expenditure of the Dutch is the closest to that of the Belgians. The Ukrainians are relatively close as well. Their expenditure was much higher but in the second half of this decade it was almost non-existent. Ukrainian clubs are slowly starting to spend again though.

    In this decade Belgian clubs have flexed more "transfer muscle" than the likes of Holland and Ukraine. In Europe "only" the usual 5 suspects plus the Russian, Turkish and Portuguese leagues are ranked higher. Outside the top tier, only the Championship has more money to burn and outside Europe, it's only China and Brazil.


    Already less than 1/2 of the starters in every single Pro League club are Belgians, there are even less than 2 Belgian starters on average in Charleroi. UEFA's Homegrown Player Rule requires minimum 8 players (in a 25 man squad) while in Belgium it's only 6. If the Bosman rule lawyers are able to get rid of this requirement agents will use Belgium to flip even more legionnaires to the detriment of locally trained players.

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. LouisianaViking07/09

    Aug 15, 2009
    What has been the secret of Belgian league success of the last 5 or so years? It's competing pretty well in European competition and it's not far from being named a top 10 Euro league. All without surrendering the league to a super-club (looking at you PSG).
     
  25. Blondo

    Blondo Member+

    Sep 21, 2013
    On UEFA's Country Ranking Belgium moved back into the top 10 in 2014. When the ranking was first introduced Belgium were in the top 3. Belgium stayed in the top 3, and later top 5, in the late 70s, throughout the 80s and early 90s. Legionnaires weren't nearly as common in those decades and the few that did come over were top quality players who were showered with love, boosting the reputation of legionnaires. Despite the drop in quality that reputation has lasted while local talents are less interesting from a commercial perspective as they are readily available.

    There was a sharp decline in the late 90s when the Bosman verdict came in and, more importantly, TV money (pay-to-view) started making a massive impact. Clubs in the smaller leagues were quickly dismantled by richer clubs abroad as soon as they showed promise (Ajax 1995 is probably one of the best examples of this sort of thing). Belgium, or Holland for that matter, are relatively small media markets and because of those constraints can't compete with the bigger leagues, a gap that keeps widening. In recent decades the Pro League seems to be tilting towards the other extreme, with clubs falling into the trap of recklessly importing legionnaires and selling their souls to the markets, creating an imbalance between local talents and legionnaires, often benefitting agents/transfer networks even more than the club. Yet the main beneficiaries of the flows of legionnaires are the top clubs of the big leagues. These clubs concentrate talent more strongly than in the past. This process is at the heart of the deterioration of competitive balance in Europe and it's a stain on the Belgian clubs and the Pro League to keep facilitating it.

    More to the point, the Pro League's TV revenue is good but other income, e.g. from sponsorship deals, not so much. Still Belgian clubs can offer competitive wages, for the talent pool they can access/that isn't beyond their means, and have gone/are going through a process of professionalization. The Pro League reform(s) will have helped but it sounds like professionalization in the clubs themselves was/is key. Belgian clubs lagged behind but started catching up. Also, competitive balance (within the Pro League itself) hasn't been under attack as much as it has been in leagues like the Eredivisie (and their inequitable distribution of TV money). In Europe, for example, only Ajax and PSV survived the qualis while there are 4 teams from Belgium in the groups (should have been 5 out of 5 again but the poorest of the Pro League's "big" 5 didn't get past Bordeaux). Because of the greed of the top clubs in Holland the Eredivisie's competitive balance gets destroyed and their coefficient gets sacrificed (they're ranked 14th on the 2018 ranking). Belgian clubs avoided that fate simply by being a bit less greedy, clubs receiving their fair share of TV revenue, resulting a competitive league with clubs constantly pushing each other.
     

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