Rape/Sexual Assault Culture

Discussion in 'Politics & Current Events' started by minerva, Jun 4, 2013.

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  1. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    I don't see that as rape culture so much as asshole culture. Like college football players. They catcalled women often, less often groped them, insulted guys often, less often physically threatened them. Not all of the footballers, but a sizeable minority.

    To me, rape culture means something about the culture excuses or encourages rape. That isn't true for the asshole football players. They weren't permitted to grope women any more or less than to push guys against the wall. Both acts were technically forbidden, although in reality they were likely to get away with it because the victim knew that if he/she resisted, then he/she might end up looking like that Swedish woman. Especially if the football player was drunk ... that almost certainly would have been the outcome.
     
  2. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Are comparing opening a door to killing a person? Really?

    Okay, fine, but what good does it do your daughter to have to visit you in prison?
    "Dad, I needed you last night, I was scared."
    "Sorry, honey, but the prison guards wouldn't let me go home."

    The idea of vengeance by me is about feeling like being able protect women - your woman (daughter, wife, mother, ect.). But killing somebody out of vengeance does not protect them, it only causes the one killing to enter into an unnecessary legal situation. And causes an additional stress on the daughter/family.
     
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  3. The Devil's Architect

    Feb 10, 2000
    The American Steppe
    Club:
    Chicago Fire
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    That's why you hire it out. Wait a couple of years, then have it done, make it look like an accident
     
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  4. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I am 100% with Auria for once.

    You are looking at it in a rational, measured way and you are correct.

    But, I can tell you that if someone abused any of my three daughters I would not be thinking rationally if I could get my hands on the person that did it.

    For instance, Reagan Tokes, an OSU student found raped and murdered last year. She was walking to her car after work, was abducted, raped, murdered and dumped in a park. She was supposed to graduate in a few weeks and her father had spent the day with her picking out a frame for her diploma.

    If I had found the guy first, yes, I would have killed him.

    You can talk rationally as you want and debate how vengeance doesn't help anyone and you would be right.

    But that doesn't matter in a case like this.
     
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  5. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    A killin is too easy for the vermin. A daily knee to the crotch would suffice! :coffee:
     
  6. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Of course. I would, too. To prevent us from doing so is why the legal system exists. As individuals, we would inflict cruel and unusual punishment. As a society, we have agreed to erect a legal system, supported by the 8th Amendment, that prevents such things. That legal system should be doing a better job of preventing prison rapes.

    Donald Trump would disagree with me, at least in private if not publicly. I like being on the other side of Donald Trump.
     
  7. stanger

    stanger BigSoccer Supporter

    Nov 29, 2008
    Columbus
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It's difficult to say what you would or wouldn't do in a hypothetical situation.

    I do think there are some people that are simply "wired" wrong. People like Nassar, who prey on adolescents for sexual pleasure, I don't think are capable of be rehabbed. Whatever happens to him is on him, not us as a society. The vast majority of our incarcerated population is in that circumstance because of either unfortunate circumstance or a lapse of judgement or both. I believe most of them can be rehabbed if they even deserved to be put in prison at all.

    Sexual predators? Mass murders? Rapists? How do you know if those types are really no longer a threat? People that derive sexual pleasure from children? Do you just unlearn that preference?
     
  8. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Damn...I googled that. Yeah...right...let the Justice System rehabilitate him [again]. I'm reminded of John Grisham's book "A Time To Kill"! :coffee:
     
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  9. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV
    I don't think that anyone is arguing against personal feelings of vengeance for the people directly involved.
     
  10. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Exactly... to get laid :)

    ...

    That's not what you meant, is it!!! :cautious:

    :giggle:

    Hey, come on. It was a joke (albeit not a very funny one :().
     
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  11. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    In any event, what if her dad DIDN'T get on with her... what if she was an orphan and didn't HAVE a dad... in fact, what if she was a terrible person and nobody liked her.

    Which is why the lady with the scales wears a blind.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    Or maybe this lady...
    [​IMG]
    Hey...don't look at me. :eek:
     
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  13. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    This guy vegeances.
     
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  14. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    And nothing happens to Jocko Rapersteen because Go State.
    And nothing happens to Harvey Weinstein till his films start to lose money.
    And Congressmen get to be investigated by Congress and can pay of their victims.

    Dude,it's rapeyness all the way down.
     
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  15. JohnR

    JohnR Member+

    Jun 23, 2000
    Chicago, IL
    Nope.

    1) Jocko Rapersteen assaults anybody he sees, because he's a violent prick

    2) Harvey only assaults women, and only for sexual reasons. He's a prick but he's not a violent prick. He's a sexual predator.

    3) Same goes for the Congressmen.

    I didn't say Jocko was better than those guys, or worse. Just different.
     
  16. russ

    russ Member+

    Feb 26, 1999
    Canton,NY
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    But the prickiness (and a bit more than that) is ignored and enabled by power structure.
    If you or I tried it on with one of these girls,we'd be crushed.Or not,depending on where we were on the local food chain.
     
  17. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    It always matters, every single time, in every single case. It is what prevents mobs from acting on rumor. It what prevents shotgun justice. It is what prevents us from acting purely on emotion.

    And to be clear, I am talking about acting, or hoping it happens, not having the emotion.
     
  18. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    Nassar isn't rumored to have abused several young girls. He did it.

    What happens when we hope somebody gets killed or dicked in jail, nutter?
     
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  19. Belgian guy

    Belgian guy Member+

    Club Brugge
    Belgium
    Aug 19, 2002
    Belgium
    Club:
    Club Brugge KV




    Interesting in light of the recent discussion in this thread.
     
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  20. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Yes, but I also said shotgun justice. That would do something to prevent the 150+ young women from speaking out to him, the court, and anybody listening. Sure, some would still speak out, but there is undoubtedly confidence in some that they were able to join others speaking out. One of them I'm thinking of is Biles. She's high profile, personable, but said nary a word until the last couple of months. Strength in numbers - that would be the individual finding her inner strength.

    That is wishing for the action. Not just being angry.
     
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  21. phedre44

    phedre44 Member

    SKC
    Apr 1, 2008
    Kansas
    Club:
    Sporting Kansas City
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Veering in a slightly different direction, but this is something critics of Judge Aquilina seem to skip over in their rush to criticize yet another woman for "attention-seeking." What she did for the victims in this case, allowing each and every one of them to step up and speak about their experiences, and then telling them "we hear you," "we believe you" is one of the greatest acts in furtherance of healing I've ever seen or heard of.

    Women who report being raped are much more likely to suffer psychological problems if they are not believed. I've heard far too many women talk about being abused as young girls, telling their parents, and being accused of lying or of being a slut. Hell, one of Nassar's victims was forced to go apologize to him for reporting what he'd done to her. Can you imagine the psychological damage that caused? And now, to have somebody in a position of great authority give you a national platform to speak the truth about what happened?

    I hope Nassar is given healthful food, space to exercise his body, and adequate medical care to ensure he lives a long, long time. I hope he's protected from physical harm. And I hope these victim statements were recorded and are played back to him every single day of that long, long life, so that he never has a chance to forget all the harm he's caused.
     
  22. Auriaprottu

    Auriaprottu Member+

    Atlanta Damn United
    Apr 1, 2002
    The back of the bus
    Club:
    Atlanta
    Nat'l Team:
    --other--
    That's fair.

    Again, then. What negative does wishing for the action do to our society?
     
  23. Naughtius Maximus

    Jul 10, 2001
    Shropshire
    Club:
    Chelsea FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    It turn us into a more vindictive society is the simple answer.

    With guys like this fella that might seem fair but the problem is it never stops with people like that.
     
  24. roby

    roby Member+

    SIRLOIN SALOON FC, PITTSFIELD MA
    Feb 27, 2005
    So Cal
    I look at it as a one off. If it happens to one of mine I'd want retribution. If it happens to someone else I could understand their feelings. To the whole of society unfortunately it's just another day at the office! :cry:
     
  25. soccernutter

    soccernutter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Tottenham Hotspur
    Aug 22, 2001
    Near the mountains.
    Club:
    Tottenham Hotspur FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    What Maximus said, plus there is no litmus test other than being angry. Would you treat Weinstein the same? Spacey? Lewis CK? How about Franken? Or Crowley?

    Let me give you an example of why not acting in vengeance is powerful (be it a less dramatic issue). A few years ago, having built my reputation as one who stepped up and worked with and for the female population, I had a smaller class in which it was almost exclusively female (something like 10 females and 1 male). A talkative group, but they got their class work done, and they listened to instructions. One Monday, they seemed extra talkative, and I struggled to get them on track. But it was Monday, not unusual. Tuesday was a bit better. Wednesday was worse than Monday, but not out of bounds for this group. Thursday they just started talking and barely listening to me, but sort of doing their work. Now if this had been somebody else stepping into class, it would have looked different, like they were not interested in their class work and nothing else. But I saw something different. So I asked them while sitting at my desk,

    "Nothing, Mr. Nutter."

    I waited, and nobody moved or did anything. So I came around my desk, and leaned on it, as I did when talking causally.

    "Something's going on. What is it?"

    "No, it's okay, we'll do our work, Mr. Nutter."

    A couple looked like they were going to try, or at least do so in order for me not to push, or for some other reason. But I asked again, this time softer, and taking a seat in a desk in their proximity.

    "Y'all are talkative, but that is fine because you usually do your work. But today you are unfocused. And it has been like this all week. What's going on?"

    They hesitated.

    "Look, you know that I will back you up. You are in my class and you are my people. If I can I will keep what you say in class. But if I need to tell somebody, I will tell you I am doing that, who I am telling, and trying to keep your names out of it. Okay?"

    That is what I did, gave a similar speech before. I imagined there was something going on at somebody's home, maybe a bad breakup, maybe bullying, something like that. Then a couple of the girls started talking about a staff member was having an affair with a student. And I listened to them, asked a few questions to see what details they knew, but clarified that it was to see what I could do. And then I told them "I need to tell [director of discipline] and possibly [principal], but I will do the best I can to keepyour names out of this. But eventually you will need to write this down so we can kick his ass out. Cause he is ********ing up all of you, not just [the girl]. And the more if you who write something down the easier it will be for us to get him out."

    I expected 3 or 4 statements. I got 8 of the 10 from that class, and another 5 from other girls who I did not have in class (this was not procedure, I should have directed them to [director of discipline], but they found a way to speak in trust), a couple of them who did not know, who came to me and gave me the statements.

    When he left, there was a visual relief in the girls, not just in that class, but many who I had in other classes, whom I did not speak with. And girls took that incident and started to step up all ways of doing this, starting to report harassing behavior from students, which was new.

    And none of the girls said they wanted that guy dead. Or even in prison. I saw that incident as cathartic for them, and giving strength to other females.
     
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