[R] Looks like Elizondo will be on his way home too...

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by mfw13, Jun 23, 2006.

  1. GraciasViejo

    GraciasViejo New Member

    May 11, 2006
    Argentina
    1. Switzerland´s second goal was probably the best referee decision for a controversial play in the WC so far.
    2. If you consider that any of BOTH handballs of Swiss defenders in their Penalty Areas were deliberate, I am glad that either you are not a referee, or I dont participate/follow the league you officiate in.

    I have sworn and bitched at Elizondo many times here as a fan, but he has definitively been one of the best and regular referees in the cup. Dont let my Location deceive you into thinking that I am supporting my fellow national. I believe that the only reason for National States is for there to be an interesting and easy way to make up football (and other team spotrs) squads. I am a fervent
    internationalist.
     
  2. MidwestRef

    MidwestRef New Member

    Feb 8, 2004
    Iowa
    IF (I didn't see the game, so I can't comment on the actual offside decision) Elizondo correctly overruled the AR, then he should be publicly lauded by FIFA and probably earned a semifinal appointment. It takes a great deal of courage to be able to overrule your AR on an offside decision, but it can be done. I've done it when I could clearly see that an onside player (he made a 10-yard run to the ball) played the ball instead of an offside player.

    One correct way to handle this situation (without the headsets, of course) would be to let the play go and then to consult with your AR to get the call right. From what a friend of mine said, he did that. I really want to see this play on a highlight. Why do I keep taping the wrong games from the perspective of these controversial plays?
     
  3. MidwestRef

    MidwestRef New Member

    Feb 8, 2004
    Iowa
    Since the referee is authorized by the laws of the game to wait a short period of time until an advantage is gained, this sort of situation is perfectly acceptable. Elizondo was doing what any good referee should do - wait to see if the fouled team (on the first foul) has an advantage.

    I'm guessing that Elizondo didn't wait 5-10 seconds. 3-4 seconds (an accepted period of time to wait) is a very long time in a soccer game. A lot can happen in those few seconds.

    From what I saw in his first two games, Elizondo was excellent. It seems like he was on top of his game again in his third game.
     
  4. bjk31

    bjk31 New Member

    Oct 2, 2003
    Elizondo and linesman were very very poor.
    Look at their judgements which ignored a clear offside situation right before Frei's goal!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tWmnBKEV_Q

    Two swiss players were behind korean defenders already, thus making the situation as an offside already 3 second before the linesman raised his flag.
     
  5. MidwestRef

    MidwestRef New Member

    Feb 8, 2004
    Iowa
    First of all, as the laws clearly state, it is not merely an offense to be in an offside position.

    Second, after watching the replays three times, I think Elizondo made a brilliant call. Yes, this is a darn close decision. However, I think he got the call right. When the last SUI player played the ball, the attacker actively involved was close enough to be given the benefit of the doubt.

    I'm now convinced that this was the right call, and Elizondo should only be denied a semifinal or third-place game assignment (he won't get the final since he did the opener) if Argentina keeps advancing (a very real possibility).
     
  6. HwaRang

    HwaRang Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Alexandria, Virginia
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Did you watch bjk31's video?? O.O
     
  7. MidwestRef

    MidwestRef New Member

    Feb 8, 2004
    Iowa
    Yes - that was the replay upon which I was basing my opinion. From an unbiased opinion, it was a good call. I can understand that a Korean supporter would protest, but the call was right (just as many of the calls for Korea against Spain in 2002 were correct). Several of the officials on this board concur.

    I just watched it one more time to make sure I saw all of the facets of the play correctly. I'm now even more convinced that the call was right. Kudos to the Argentinian crew for having the courage to make the right call in such a tight spot.
     
  8. HwaRang

    HwaRang Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Alexandria, Virginia
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    After I watched the clip several times, it looked clear to me that the 2 Swiss players were in and offsides position. ><
     
  9. rapscallion

    rapscallion New Member

    May 1, 2002
    Full disclosure: I'm a Korea fan.

    The referee made a bad call. A Swiss player was offisde when the ball was initially played.

    Still, Korea played like garbage, and that goal probably didn't change the outcome of the game. Furthermore, we've gotten our share of favorable calls, and we have to accept the fact that bad calls are part of the game.

    Thanks.
     
  10. MidwestRef

    MidwestRef New Member

    Feb 8, 2004
    Iowa
    What you need to do on the YouTube clip is to start double-clicking around 00:38. This will give you a stop-action look at the play. Keep doing this until you get to 00:42 or so. At 00:40, the Swiss player plays the ball toward the goal-scorer. At 00:41, you can see the ball go off the Swiss passer's foot. At the time of this play (when the ball is about a yard off of the foot), the Swiss player certainly appears to be onside with the last Korean defender. As the Korean defender didn't move forward at all and the Swiss player didn't move back at all, they are in the same position as as the play of the ball.

    I did this 4-5 times, and every time the Swiss appear to be onside with this being a good goal. The Korean supporters are as upset about this play as the US supporters are about Merk's penalty call, so I can't really begrudge their anger. However, this one really does look right to me.
     
  11. yimmy

    yimmy Moderator

    Aug 23, 2004
    California
    One question if you don't mind. I thought the ball was kicked to the swiss player around 00:27. Isn't that swiss player in an offsides position when the ball is kicked to him and he then runs onsides to receive it? :confused:
     
  12. HwaRang

    HwaRang Member

    Feb 16, 2006
    Alexandria, Virginia
    Nat'l Team:
    Korea Republic
    Nvm.

    What yimmy said.
     
  13. Elliad

    Elliad Member

    Jun 22, 2002
    Sydney, Australia
    Yes you are right about the action around that ~40th second mark, but as yimmy has pointed out, the problem is the missed offside call regarding the pass that happened at about the 27th second, where there were 2 swiss players in an offside position.

    btw, if a player that was in an offside position when the pass was initially made runs back to an onside position to receive the ball, should that still be called an offside? If not then I guess there's nothing wrong at all about the decision (to me at least), but if not...
     
  14. MidwestRef

    MidwestRef New Member

    Feb 8, 2004
    Iowa
    I did the same stop-action work from 00:25 to 00:29. There COULD be a "comeback" offside where the player was offside and ran onside to receive the ball. However, the replay is not conclusive. Personally, I think that's a play where the benefit of the doubt has to benefit the attacker. FIFA has made it perfectly clear that ARs are to keep the flag down when in doubt. I can't go into the mind of the AR, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's what he was thinking.

    Simply put, it's at least defensible why the offside wasn't called. On a split-second decision like that, you can only ask for that.
     
  15. yimmy

    yimmy Moderator

    Aug 23, 2004
    California
    Thanks for your opinion :)
     
  16. mauro_

    mauro_ New Member

    Oct 31, 2005
    Bs As, Argentina
    hehe this is a funny situation. you guys are complaining about elizondo's perfomance while the fifa congratulated him for conceiding this goal...

    whether you or him is right i don't care just pointing this out (and no, im not trying to be an ass here :()
    cya
     

Share This Page