Questions for The Left

Discussion in 'Bill Archer's Guestbook' started by Bill Archer, Jul 30, 2006.

  1. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    A week or so ago, I broke a personal rule and replied to a series of questions posed by some poor deluded guy of the DemoLeftieCrat persuation here in this forum.

    He hasn't been back, but that's OK because he kept spouting ridiculous leftwing "facts" which he "knew" and when people kept demonstrating that he was simply wrong he would say "I'll have to study it further". Uh, huh, sure he will.

    Anyway, si I thought I'd pose some questions of my own. Feel free.

    1) George Bush joined a unit of the Texas Air National Guard in the mid-sixties. At the time, the unit was on active duty in Vietnam and, because of that fact it was 40% under strangth, so neither he nor anyone else needed to "pull strings" to get in if they could pass the tests.

    His training period consisted of two straight years of full-time active duty. At one point, the existent paperwork proves, he asked to join the unit in Vietnam but didn't have enough air hours to qualify and was turned down.

    By the time he qualified, the unit had been returned to the US. The reason was that they flew air combat jets and the the North Vietnamese had given up flying fighters and air intercept wasn't needed.

    However you may try to claim he didn't go to this physical or that meeting, he did provably complete his yearly requirement (it's a matter of record) and was honorably discharged long after the war was over.

    Conversely, Bill Clinton never served a day. His draft board sent him an induction notice which his brother managed to get quashed through political contacts. He got another draft notice a year later which he arranged to get put on hold by promising to join the National Guard when he returned from participating in antiwar demos and not inhaling in England.

    Soon afterwards, Selective Service went to a lottery system and his birthdate drew a very low number, assuring that he would not be drafted, whereupon he renegged on his promise to enlist in the NG and accepted 1A status.

    So why does the left continually, to this day, insist on bleating about how Bush was a "draft dodger" who ought to be disqualified from leading the US Military, but I have never heard them apply this description to Clinton?


    2) I keep hearing that the Bush Administration has destroyed the US Constitution, particularly the Bill of Rights. In what ways do you feel your personal freedom as an American citizen has been infringed.

    3) Why was Michael Moore given a VIP seat - and TV face time - next to Jimmy Carter at the Democratic National convention?

    4) Why didn't Bill Clinton sign the Kyoto treaty?

    5) Why isn't Air America successful?

    6) Can you give me a single sensible solution to the situation in Iraq beyond telling me that it was a mistake?

    7) If gay marriage is a basic civil right, why did Clinton sign the Defense of Marriage Act?

    8) I keep hearing that Fox news is a hopeless right wing mouthpiece full of hate and bias. Give me an example of a Fox news report (not an opinion show) that gives you a reason to say this.

    9) Since you feel Guantanamo should be closed, what would you do with terror suspects caught overseas. If we're supposed to pretend they are "soldiers" and thus deserve staus under the Geneva Conventions, then as POW's they can be held until the end of hostilities. Can we keep them at your house?

    10) Why do leftists complain that the military is only for the poor and disadvantaged who can't afford college, yet they also are violently opposed to ROTC on campuses. Can you explain this?

    11) Why does John Murtha's service as a Marine Officer in Vietnam give him absolute authority to speak on the situation in Iraq but Oliver North's does not?

    12) If everyone who suports the war ought to prove it by joining the military, then why aren't you currently in Darfur helping to feed starving children? Do you support feeding starving children or don't you?
     
  2. Microwave

    Microwave New Member

    Sep 22, 1999
    13) If invading a sovereign nation without UN clearance is wrong, why do Democrats praise the Yugoslav imbroglio intervention?
     
  3. Owen Gohl

    Owen Gohl Member

    Jun 21, 2000
    Many of these deserve threads of their own. Comments on a few:

    3) Why was Michael Moore given a VIP seat - and TV face time - next to Jimmy Carter at the Democratic National convention?

    Partly because Moore helped fire up the party's left, but also because the party leaders believed that it was an effective campaign weapon against Bush. One way to help promote the film was to honor the director by seating him next to the "conscience" of the party. Approval wasn't limited to showcasing Moore at the convention. A number of prominent Democrats attended the DC premier of F-911 in July 2004 and went out of their way to praise it. However, I have my doubts the film helped the Democrats as much as they hoped it would.

    Promoting the film was in line with Howard Dean's earlier statement which implied that Bush had advance knowledge of the 9/11 attacks. The strategy was to sow as much doubt as possible concerning Bush's primary justification for the WOT.

    5) Why isn't Air America successful?

    Actually some people think it is successful if only because it has survived as long as it has. There was a thread on the P-board awhile ago celebrating the [second?] anniversary of its launching. I believe it's lasted as long as it has only due to cash infusions from characters like Soros. Better people than Al Franken, such as Mario Cuomo and Jim Hightower, earlier tried and failed at this sort of thing. Air America would be gone in a month if the financing were withdrawn. The audience just isn't there and likely never will be so long as the MSM is dominated by liberals.

    7) If gay marriage is a basic civil right, why did Clinton sign the Defense of Marriage Act?

    Because it was an election year and he didn't dare veto it. My recollection is that he approved the DOMA early one Sunday morning at the bottom of the news cycle. No Rose Garden ceremony and celebratory distribution of the pens that time. I also assume that he felt liberal judges would eventually overturn the law.
     
  4. maturin

    maturin Member

    Jun 8, 2004
    Now that I've found your hideaway, I'll respond to some of these. I'll keep my answers short, simple, and honest.

    1. The answer to this is simple. We like Clinton, so we have no reason to go looking for reasons to bash him. The same is obviously not true of Bush. We look to expose him in whatever ways possible. Yes it's a bit hypocritical, but there you have it.

    2. My personal freedom to peacably assemble in public areas has been trodden upon. The "free speech zones" set up in NYC in 2004 were the culmination of this. Dissent is not tolerated in many areas.

    3. Michael Moore was given that exposure because he is a popular liberal. Putting him next to Jimmy Carter gives him an air of legitimacy (whether it is deserved or not is a topic for another thread) that Democrats hoped would appeal to swing voters.

    4. Bill Clinton did sign the Kyoto Protocol. He submitted it for ratification to the Senate where it was defeated 95-0. He then signed an executive order ensuring that the nation would adhere to at least some of its provisions.

    http://supernatural.blogs.com/weblog/2005/01/the_kyoto_proto.html

    5. This may be the most controversial answer I provide, but I truly believe that Air America has nowhere near the success of conservative talk shows because liberals tend to get their political fix from other sources. I don't listen to it because I don't like talk radio in general, but I also get my fix from The Progressive. I think liberals don't necessarily need somebody to tell them what they already know and what they want to hear the way many conservatives do.

    6. Step 1: Remove soldiers from combat. Step 2: Put soldiers on airplanes. Step 3: Tell pilots to fly home. Step 4: Invest resources previously spent on our military expenses in training Iraqi police forces to quell the violence. There's your solution. This has become a civil war that we really don't need to be involved in. We accelerated the problem by deposing Saddam, but the tension between the different sects of Muslims has always been fierce and conflict would have eventually occurred anyway.

    7. Unfortunately, even some Democrats are blind enough not to see that we must have equal rights for all. Clinton is one of them.

    8. I do not watch Fox News or any television news, so
    I can't comment on this. I will say, though, that from their promos for local news and the times I have seen little segments of Fox News that their business seems not to be providing news, but sparking fear of terrorism and other things (if you are familiar with the Universtity of Minnesota hockey team's story that aired on Fox in October, that is an excellent example. Underage kids? Drinking alcohol?!!!!! OH NO!)

    9. Terror suspects caught overseas must not be held more than 24 hours without being charged with a crime. Simple as that. If you don't have enough evidence to charge them and bring them to trial, you can't arrest them.

    10. I don't think that the military is only for the economically disadvantaged. I think the military is for people who are cold-hearted enough to join up with an organization which, at its most basic level, exists for the purpose of killing people. Those who wish to recruit others to join an organization whose reason for being is to kill human beings have no business at institutions of higher learning.

    Eleven and twelve are impossible to answer without starting a flame war. So there you have it.
     
  5. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    You get points for honesty here! Someone positive rep him for this.

    Who does not tolerate dissent? You make a nebulous claim without any specific actors, not to mention mangling the English language through the use of passive voice. Were the "Free Speech Zones" in Boston as much of an affront as the ones in New York? Do the Republican party and Democratic party have a right to conduct their business without the threat of disruption from outside parties? Would a disruption from outside parties of a political convention qualify as an attempt to quash free speech?

    Presumably at least one liberal Senator voted against the Kyoto Treaty and none saw fit to vote for it. Here's proof that liberal sentaors don't hate America. Take a note of that, Microwave.

    Air America: The MLS of talk radio. Are you saying you're a printsnob? :D Seriously, how is hearing someone say something different that reading about it in an obviously biased publication? I would argue that you're wrong. One of the major (and completely correct) liberal self-criticisms that there is no liberal infrastructure of magazines, radio, and other media dedicated to putting forth liberal ideas. Of course, the way liberals are going about it leaves much to be desired, but that's a different story.

    Sachin
     
  6. Smiley321

    Smiley321 Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    Concord, Ca
    Our military is there to defend us from our enemies. Some liberals seem to have great difficulty understanding that concept, as shown above.
     
  7. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The answer to the question of how your personal freedom has been trodden on is:

    "Dissent is not tolerated in many areas"

    Glad we cleared that up.

    But I much preferred the Iraq answer:

    Put everybody on planes and aas they're leaving hand a big bag of money to the government.

    I said "sensible" solution, not "solution which ensures a humanitarian catastrophy"

    And the answer about the military is simply childish and embarassing.

    I honestly hope a serious grownup will take the time to check in.
     
  8. bojendyk

    bojendyk New Member

    Jan 4, 2002
    South Loop, Chicago
    You seem to have forgotten that EVERYBODY on the right wing called Clinton a "pot-smoking draft dodger" during the campaigns and both of his terms. And, to my knowledge, no Democrat congressman has disrespected Bush and his service as much as B2 Bob Dornan disrespected Clinton.

    The SCOTUS has started proving the left right with regard to their complaints about Bush's colorful interpretations of the Constitution, and they'll do so once again when Bush's signing statements (incidentally, he's issued more than all other presidents combined, and his actually affect the means by which the laws are carried out) get shot down. Doesn't matter whether the PATRIOT Act was used to raid my business (as was the case a couple of years ago with, IIRC, a toy store) or whether somebody tapped my phone; any misuse of government powers is an affront to me, and it matters not at all whether the perps were Democrats or Republicans.

    To make Jimmy Carter look young and healthy.

    He did.

    Don't know, don't care. Why does Rev. Moon have to heavily subsidize The Washington Times?

    As I've mentioned before, we need to either shit or get off the pot: either bring everybody home now, let the inevitable civil war run its course, and then apologize to the rest of the world for such utter short-sightedness; or increase the troop strength to what the army (and not Rumsfeld) requested and actually pacify the damn place.

    Under the commies, Bulgaria somehow managed to unify various ethnic groups under the banner of Bulgarian. We should study that and see how they did it.

    Because, as discussed before, he ain't a liberal. (And I disagreed with him vehemently over this.)

    Trick question: they're all opinion shows!
    Kidding, of course, because about 25 minutes of Brit Hume's show (followed by GOP fluffer John Gibson, loofah-scrubber Bill O'Reilly, and the morons [both of them] on Hannity and Colmes) contains actual news, with the Grapevine (a short segment dedicated exclusively to attacking and ridiculing Democrats) and the right-leaning panel thrown in for good measure. Oh, and sometimes Hume accidentally says "we" when referring to the GOP. Whoops!

    I can find more specific examples, but I can't be arsed.

    That's fine, but call them what they are: POWs.

    We have a strict ban on the practice of religion at our house, with some largesse during minute 88+ of an Arsenal/US/Fire/France game.

    I'm embarrassed by the fringe who feels this way, too, and was happy to see the SCOTUS strike down attempts to ban ROTC/military recruiters.

    Liberals and conservatives on campus should instead look for common ground. I think both can agree that the Society for Creative Anachronisms consists of nerds who need a good beating.

    Eh, Ollie North's lie elsewhere. For instance, his willingness to work with terrorists in Iran and anti-Castro terrorist Luis Posada Carriles.

    I've given money. Does that count?
     
  9. maturin

    maturin Member

    Jun 8, 2004
    I know this is your guestbook and that it's your thread, but really, why are you surprised at the response you get from people like Gringo Tex in the main forums when this is how you respond to people who are trying to answer your questions in such a way as to create decent discussion?

    And you really can't argue that the reason the military exists is to kill people. Yes, it exists to defend our country. How does it do that? By killing people. It's really not something up for debate.

    But I much preferred the Iraq answer:


    Why is it acceptable to give Israel's government a big bag of money then?
     
  10. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Sorry. You already flunked. You don't get a makeup test.

    Read bo's answers for an example of actual thought as opposed to childish blather.

    I don't agree with him all that much either, but what I enjoy is hearing how lucid people on the left (as few as there are) justify their positions. And I know I won't be asked to explain the differences between Israel and Iraq.

    I already know how you justify yours, and it's not "interesting" at all.
     
  11. Microwave

    Microwave New Member

    Sep 22, 1999


    No one is suprised by Gringotex. I wanted to give you th ebenefit of the doubt on your first reply but after seeing this.....well, you really deserve any sort of response Bill gives you.

    Your response on the ROTC places you alongside Brel Mennan as some of the most laughable series of words typed out on bigsoccer. But I guess that not only does the ROTC not belong at a place of higher learning, you don't either because I refuse to believe a University let you in it's doors based on what you've shown above.
     
  12. Smiley321

    Smiley321 Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    Concord, Ca
    You're on to something here. We need to find some guy like the Shah, who will repress the hell out of them and give us 25 years of stability.
     
  13. Smiley321

    Smiley321 Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    Concord, Ca
    Are you kidding? Mel can't write a single concise sentence and he's a professional college student.

    There are probably colleges where you can ace classes by pasting left wing bumber stickers into the blue book. Colorado ethnic studies, for instance.
     
  14. Microwave

    Microwave New Member

    Sep 22, 1999


    Not to use Bill's forums to trash people, ok I do that a bit I guess, I don't believe a word that the person you mentioned above says. He's been caught in several lies and many of his claims just don't add up.
     
  15. Smiley321

    Smiley321 Member

    Apr 21, 2002
    Concord, Ca
    Yeah, you've got a point there. I'll bet that even Ward Churchill would punish the incoherent stuff that Mel writes.
     
  16. Microwave

    Microwave New Member

    Sep 22, 1999

    I don't believe that piece of shit either, I doubt his name is really Ward Churchill.....Ward Fawlkes maybe.
     
  17. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Shah wasn't an oppressor, he was just a thief. f he had been content to only steal about 80% of everything, nobody would have minded. Hell, it was expected. But he insisted on stealing 100% and even in Persia, a nation of highly skilled theieves, it was distasteful.

    Your best example is Tito. He was an equal opportunity oppressor. A guy like Saddam used his home tribe in Tikrit to supply leaders and his fellow Sunnis as soldiers and used them both to kick the crap out of everybody else.

    Tito used henchmen from all the ethnic groups indiscrimanately, and kicked the crap out of everybody until they all got the point. Didn't matter where you were from or what your religion or ethnic background. Yugoslavia belonged to Tito and he'd kill his own grandmother if she forgot it.

    Once everybody understood the rules, everything went smoothly.
     
  18. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The Shah wasn't an oppressor, he was just a thief. f he had been content to only steal about 80% of everything, nobody would have minded. Hell, it was expected. But he insisted on stealing 100% and even in Persia, a nation of highly skilled theieves, it was distasteful.

    Your best example is Tito. He was an equal opportunity oppressor. A guy like Saddam used his home tribe in Tikrit to supply leaders and his fellow Sunnis as soldiers and used them both to kick the crap out of everybody else.

    Tito used henchmen from all the ethnic groups indiscrimanately, and kicked the crap out of everybody until they all got the point. Didn't matter where you were from or what your religion or ethnic background. Yugoslavia belonged to Tito and he'd kill his own grandmother if she forgot it.

    And he didn't steal all the money and stuff it in Swiss banks, either. He could have anything he wanted and he knew he wasn't going anywhere.

    Once everybody understood the rules, everything went smoothly.

    They just don't make dictators like him any more.
     
  19. maturin

    maturin Member

    Jun 8, 2004
    I am curious as to how you are going to actually refute my statement about the military. Would you like to try to do so instead of just hurling insults around?

    Allow me to develop my first response a bit here. Military recruiters are already working hard in just about every high school across the United States. I put up with them there, because high-schoolers have a right to know what options are available to them after they finish high school. Once people reach college, they know what options exist. They chose to go to school instead of joining the armed forces. They should be able to reap the benefits of that choice without being irritated by recruiters on campus. Fortunately, I go to a private school that does not allow military recruiters on its campus.
     
  20. Microwave

    Microwave New Member

    Sep 22, 1999
    Nope.

    Idiot.
     
  21. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    I've found if you tell military recruiters "No", they usually leave you alone. Of course, you have to be man enough to tell someone "No" to begin with. Instead, you want someone else to do it for you.

    Sachin
     
  22. Sachin

    Sachin New Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    La Norte
    Club:
    DC United
    I've got a question for our leftist friends around here:

    What does Israel gain from agreeing to a cease fire returning essentially to status quo ante?

    Sachin
     
  23. Bill Archer

    Bill Archer BigSoccer Supporter

    Mar 19, 2002
    Washington, NC
    Club:
    Columbus Crew
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    You seriously expect someone to debate the proposition that the US Army consists of "cold-hearted" people who "don't mind killing"?

    And by the way, genius, ROTC does not consist of a recuiting table set up in the Union.
     
  24. CUS

    CUS New Member

    Apr 20, 2000
    You might want to check your facts big guy:

    From Wikipedia.
     
  25. FeverNova1

    FeverNova1 New Member

    Sep 17, 2004
    Plano
    This is hiliarious.

    Yeah I agree. They need to quit acting like terrorism is a problem in the world.

    Can we put panties on their heads for that first 24 hours?

    Excuse me but if not for those "cold-hearted" killers, we wouldn't even be discussing question #2.

    Folks, blackjack is a prime example of why we should not let libs be in charge of our security.
     

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