I saw Timbuk's post mentioning how he wants to get his players a lot of playing time. It made me want to share with you the following situation. All opinions welcome: Last Fall/Winter/Spring seasons my daughter played on a U-12 girls rec plus team, got about 50% playing time on an 8v8 team with 14 players. I’m all good with that, I helped out for all those seasons and realized to get 50% for everyone takes a lot of effort. This past summer the coach decides he wants the team to move up to travel, U13 girls in a low level travel league. I resisted but my daughter liked the girls on the team and they were all trying out. The team ends up only getting 17 girls to try out for 11v11, all were selected and one declined, leaving 16. Perfect, I thought, assuming she would at least get 45-50 minutes a game with just 5 subs max in a 70 minute game. Beginning of season coach has me fill in for him for a couple of practices. Then through an e-mail informs me that since our coaching styles were so different it was confusing the girls and he wanted another parent to help. I said that wasn’t a problem, though I didn’t really understand what he meant. The weekend of the first game, my daughter played just 19 minutes. Since then I’ve kept track and she’s played 31, 14, 24, and 19 minutes. Many times she'll only be in for about 5 minutes. Some of those games the team only had 15 girls. They lost 6-1, won 4-0, lost 2-1, lost 7-1, and tied 2-2. Another girl on the team plays even less, meaning many of the players get 60-70 minutes. Since payment was coming due for the winter, I informed the manager of the team (the coach’s wife) that my daughter would be leaving the team after this fall season. They never asked why, but just wanted to buy her uniform back for half price. It’s tough not to take any of this personally, so I was hoping to get objective opinions. There is nothing written down about minimum playing time (there was in rec plus). Is it a let the buyer beware situation? I am submitting an official request to leave the team through the state soccer association so she can play in rec futsal with some other friends and play rec in the spring with no strings. Sorry, I haven’t been on this page in a while. I had to get out of coaching because of a family member's illness and knew I couldn’t commit to a team. I lost a little bit of interest in coaching. Thanks for any opinions, and tell me if I’m looking at this wrong – because I’m baffled.
Frankly, I think he should have let you know your daughter wouldn't be good enough to play on his team. Since, it seems like she is not ready based on his actions. Usually, clubs are pretty clear about playing time not being guaranteed and all payments being for the fields/lights/training. Since, this sounds like a rec team that went club, your daughter should have half a game guaranteed. The coach is a jackass.
First off, if everyone played approximately equal time they would only be playing about 45 minutes of the 70 minute match, assuming liberal substitution rules. (9 field positions x 70 / 14 = 45). If everyone was present. So your playing time expectations were a little high unless you expect keepers to play less than a full match. I would have expected everyone to play at least 35 minutes (2 "quarter" shifts similar to college sub patterns). At the beginning of the season the coach should have established the team rules and his expectations. He should have explained his policy regarding playing time. At U13, I would expect everyone to get substantial playing time as well as some starts. Maybe not half a game every time, but at least a third of every match. I would also expect all players to rotate through the field positions. Otherwise there is no sense in the player being on the team. But really, I don't judge a coach by the amount of playing time given my child. I judge a coach by whether he can coach or not. There are coaches who I would not allow to coach my kids even if he promised to play them every minute of every match. There are also coaches that I would refuse to work with. Just curious: What instructions did he give you regarding the practices that you did for him? Did he tell you the system of play (the details not just the numbers in each line) and give you a practice plan to follow? I can't really say whether this guy can coach or not, but not setting a policy on playing time at the start of the season is a dumb mistake I don't expect first-time coaches to make. Taking a new team into their first 11v11 travel competition is also not the time for the coach to be missing practices.
If it was an individual game, I wouldn't worry too much about it. A coach can even things out over the course of a season. Life in general is a buyer beware situation, you've learned some of the questions that are important to you that you need to ask her next team. Shake the dust from your shoes and move on. I'll say I've seen a lot of what goes on in youth soccer, and I'm anxious about starting my kid in soccer. Like you, I've already seen a lot of the shenanigans coaches pull with their players. I'm guilty of some of it at some point, but I always thought I had a good reason for it. Years ago, I put a player (travel level) in the same situation because she just hated practice and would just dog it. Would I do it again like that? Probably not.
Ok you already knew the coach from rec plus. So you knew how he wants things done. At the start of the new season he should have had you over his house to discuss exactly how he wanted things done. So I can see how you would be confused by his email. More then player confusion which could happen if you did things different from what he is doing. Incidently I hate email or texting or phone calls on things like this the cowards way out. It should be done face to face. What do you know about the other parent? He might of talked his way into your spot is his kid real good? On minutes played in travel. She shows up and works hard on the practice field she should see playing time. If the training is good. Is it good? She will definitely improve. Is the training the same for every player it should be if not he is an bad coach. I am very old school but I kept track of minutes played over a season, not in each individual game. But the training on the practice field was the same for everyone. I tried to book friendly games as many as league games in our season which was also fall and spring was one season. So between both everyone got equal playing time. The goal for the player was become a starter. If I thought a player could not become a starter I did not take him. If I had 16 players I wanted to create 16 starters. Plus frankly I never hurt a player to win a freaking game. I dig players too much to ever do that. I think he is hurting your daughter in the mistaken belief in less time means wins for the team. Which is bull s it. if you do leave the team say you lost her uniform.
As the original poster indicated, this is a low level travel league. In my mind, that is not much more than previous U-12 experience. Low-level indicates there is still a lot of skill training that needs to take place. No matter the numbers, a coach should have a substitute pattern that gives players at the very least half a game of playing time. No real need to track total minutes at this level (but Yes, we also try to book friendlies). At worst, at 11v11 I may favor 2-3 players over others, but even then, they would be part of the sub pattern. On highly competitive team (I know, subjective), I feel this is the age that you can have your starters and reserves and playing time may vary, but that is on a high level.
what I was going to say, Nicklaino already said. more time for your child doesn't equate to less wins. I think there's been a few games over the course of all the years I've been coaching my boys teams that we actually lost or tied a game because I rotated a player in just because it was their turn to play. 2 games out of 30'ish, so not a big deal. and one specifically because I let every player take a turn at goalie. It's youth soccer and life goes on.
I agree that playtime should be more equitable…good enough to make the team, good enough to see meaningful playtime, regardless of the level…so I do think you have a legitimate beef in this regard…however, have you actually communicated this complaint or have you been quietly fuming? You say they never asked, but did you ever say anything? Regardless, quitting the team over it, mid-year, is something I have a hard time supporting….has your daughter stopped enjoying being on this team or this all about Dad being all bent out of shape? In my experience, people who say they are trying not to take things personally, usually are….
In a vacuum, low playing time stinks. But there are some other factors to consider. Is your daughter willing and able to play many positions? Some kids will only want to play a certain spot. But if there are 2 or 3 other kids that are decent at that spot, she won't get to play as much. Does she play a spot with lots of running? My box to box mids sub more than my center backs. My midfield may get less playing time than my defense, but it's because they are exhausted after a 10 minute shift. Have you tracked other players playing time? You might find out that your kids playing time is not that far off from the majority of her teammates. The coach should have communicated playing time expectations to players and parents early on.
The parent-coach is a much-maligned figure in soccer circles, but I personally fear the childless coach much more than the parent-coach. I guess the ideal coach is one who has had a child go through the youth soccer process, but who is not currently coaching said child.
In many other sports (football and basketball) a kid who is coached by his dad considered a "good thing", yet in soccer it is shunned?
I believe at times being the son of a coach can hurt the sons game. Your short a player and need a player to fill in at a position. You might be tempted to use your son because you talk the game with him all time and he might be reliable anywhere. As players get older they should be getting better at their best position and not be a fill in player. Just something to think about coaches.
Appreciate all the responses. I'm glad to know that it is not unreasonable to expect more playing time even at travel level. I should have asked for clarification before the season, I really was blindsided - this was unexpected. My daughter is a very positive kid, will do whatever is asked of her, even sit on the bench. She hustles like crazy and is tireless. She is a smaller than average kid in both height (almost 5') and weight (82 lbs) and isn't particular quick, but has run a 6:30 mile in 6th grade track. Rather not get into why he didn't want me to coach anymore. There probably was some shenanigans and I probably should have immediately gotten to the bottom of it. I didn't, so it's water under the bridge. I had every intention of leaving my daughter on the team through the spring - until she started getting very limited minutes. Quality of coaching is not what you'd call high level. My daughter had an excellent technical coach a couple of seasons ago, along with the Coerver trainer a couple of years ago and I really saw improvement. Not a lot of focus now on skills with this coach. He focuses more on passing patterns. Does a lot of 3 lines to goal type drills. They've brought in a new trainer over the last couple of weeks who seems to be pretty good, though. I don't hang around practice so I've only heard this from my daughter. In regards to quitting in the middle of the year. My feeling is that my daughter may only be playing 3 more seasons where soccer is her main focus (her 6th grade track time has my older daughter's track coach salivating) - I'd like her to just enjoy the game. Practices are fun, but playing in the game is what she lives for. Don't want to rob her of another season. Hope I touched on most of the comments, I've always been able to come back here and get a sanity check when it comes to soccer. Thanks again.
Brings back old memories. It has been over 20 years since I last thought about 3 line drills. Never used them with kids. 1988 is the last time I saw someone do a 3-man weave in a game. I am getting old. I remember because I was playing CB and they didn't try it a second time.
6:30 is no joke. That is an excellent time. Want to be quicker? A good track coach (or fitness coach) can fix that with a few sessions that helps them be more efficient with their running/acceleration. My son went to a camp like that over the summer. Difference is noticeable Speed is really useful in girls soccer too. Neighbor of mine has an elite runner daughter. Runs cross country instead of HS soccer. It aggravates the HS soccer coach, who she plays club soccer for 'just for fun.'
I should really look into some sort of quickness/explosiveness training for her. Any recommended soccer related drills that would emphasize this would be helpful. I know some of the Coerver drills focus on this. Not sure it's still the latest science, but I imagine my daughter is loaded with slow twitch muscles rather than fast. Great for a long distance runners, not so great for a soccer player, but I bet there are some world class soccer players with more slow twitch. Just heard from a rec coach and it looks like we'll have 14 players for U14 futsal this winter. We'll double roster two teams. A lot of them will be new to futsal. I might want to start another thread about good beginner futsal activities. Should be challenging and fun.
Speed and agility training before Peak Height Velocity focuses on technique. Young kids don't have the hormones yet, so endurance and strength training (aside from what you get playing the game) is inefficient. She's a bit young for doing sets of repetitive exercises. That usually starts during the teenage years. I would consider having her participate in multiple activities. Dance, gymnastics, basketball and many other activities are great for developing athletic skills. Unorganized soccer and other sports are good for development too.
She participated in taekwondo for years and it helped her with her balance and self confidence. I signed her up for rec basketball this winter. She's nervous about it but excited. I noticed every spring after futsal her skills seem a bit sharper, but deteriorate a little by the end of spring.
Playing soccer helped my son the first year he played CYO basketball. He hardly ever traveled. My Grand daughter is taking karate now.
on the balance thing amikapar mentioned above, are there any more suggestions on how to improve balance? my son needs to improve there. i had posted before about him falling/sliding. he has cut out the intentional sliding but while quick he gets knocked off the ball easily. we do play different sports (football season just ended and he will do basketball later) but what other drills/exercises can i do with him in between his soccer practices?
Just curious on your thought process/experience is with this statement since I'm a childless coach. Is it lack of experience dealing with kids? Note that I'm not trying to defend my coaching abilities. I know I have a lot of room for improvement.
How old is he? Good balance is not really needed, rather good technique is. I have terrible balance (middle ear problem) and it makes me lousy at gymnastics and I would lose orientation doing flip turns in swimming, but I don't have any problems with soccer. Nobody asks me to do a handstand or balance for 5 minutes on 1 foot; I leave the flip throw-ins to others. What you may be thinking of as "balance" is really the difference between a strong position and a weak one. I learned how to fall and to use my body in judo, defensive movements from basketball, offensive movements as a receiver playing football, and focus from playing tennis and Tae Kwon Do. All of these helped to improve my athletic abilities, including agility, coordination, endurance and power. For really young players, almost any activity will help develop their movement ability. For example I play drums and deliberately worked on "4-way coordination", i.e. using all four limbs. I believe that is why I have always been comfortable playing the ball with either foot. A lot of SAQ coaches want to sell you personal training services. But you can also hire them to do an evaluation and design an SAQ program which you can work on independently. Go back every 6 weeks for evaluation and adjustments to the program.
It's just a generalization. Having kids and having that understanding of what works and doesn't work in terms of motivation and punishment is part of it. But for me what really helps most is if the coach has had a child go through the youth soccer development process. When you see the process through the eyes of the parent and pay the bills for travel soccer and schlep the kid to practices and travel games, you have a different view of what it means to label an 8 or 9 year old kid as a C team player or to relegate him to the bench because he "doesn't work hard enough" or "doesn't fit the system." It of course is entirely possible to understand all of that and be empathetic to it without going through the process as a parent, but in my experience it is rare.
I have 4 kids they all played sports my oldest is 46 yrs old. I have coached for apx 50 yrs. Never felt a great need to coach my own kids. It was not the reason why I started to coach kids or adults in the first place. But I do agree having your own children helped me see better what kids are thinking and feeling about things not just about the game. Players and kids are all different. They can not all be reached in the same way. Best coaches really know people in general to get the most out of them.
I don't think that that comment fully applies. A person, and educator who also works with young kids all the time as their occupation (The obvious: A teacher) is a pretty good example of not having their own kids but would get it. I suppose the original statement is taking a high level soccer player and suddenly telling them to go coach kids. Frankly, give me the early childhood development person to teach a child over the soccer star. Having your own kids does give you a new perspective however. Especially if one of them does not excel or even want to play the game that you love.