Qatar 2022

Discussion in 'FIFA and Tournaments' started by Nico Limmat, Feb 24, 2014.

  1. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
    #1 Nico Limmat, Feb 24, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 24, 2014
    Alright folks, let's give this another try.

    We have decided to open up the discussion but will strive to keep it focused (i.e. relevant to Qatar 2022) and as factual/objective as possible. Allow me to elaborate with a few bullet points.

    Qatar's Winning Bid: much like before everything about FIFA's decision is fair game including accusations of corruption, the winter world cup debate and the ongoing investigation by the ethics committee.

    Qatar's Laws: we will draw the line here at the laws that are relevant for tourists visiting the country. For example, there is no point in discussing laws governing marriage or inheritance. These discussions should be about the serving of alcohol, the display of public affection and anything else where your typical western tourist has to make a few adjustments. In summary, it should be about the tourist experience and the laws should be discussed in an informative, factual manner where the primary goal is to inform a potential traveler, not passing moral judgment. The latter will inevitably lead to a broader religious debate irrelevant to Qatar 2022.

    Human Rights: here too we will draw the line at what is relevant for the tournament - mainly the worker conditions. Similarly potential replacement hosts may also be viewed in a critical light along those lines. To use an example from the previous thread as illustration, Guantanamo Bay references have no room in the discussion, but the working conditions in California of the many illegal immigrants in the construction and hospitality sector do have their place in a debate.

    Politics in the Middle East: we will steer clear of any politics as much as possible, including the emotional subject that is Israel. Should Israel get close to qualifying it's a different story, but until then it just leads to discussions about 1967 borders.

    Finally, personal attacks are not tolerated and we reserve the right to ban people who violate these rules from the forum. Stirring emotions without adding value to the discussion won't be looked at kindly either.

    In short, the main question to ask yourself before posting. Is it relevant to Qatar 2022?
     
    guignol, Unak78, Cody667 and 4 others repped this.
  2. Nico Limmat

    Nico Limmat Member+

    Oct 24, 1999
    Dubai, UAE
    Club:
    Grasshopper Club Zürich
    Country:
    Switzerland
  3. whitecloud

    whitecloud Member+

    Jan 25, 2009
    Gulf Shores, AL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    HomietheClown repped this.
  4. mfw13

    mfw13 Member

    Jul 19, 2003
    Seattle
    Club:
    Newcastle United FC
    Keep in mind, there are twelve new ExCo members since the Russia/Qatar vote...
     
  5. Cody667

    Cody667 Member+

    May 10, 2010
    Sudbury, ON
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    England
    Are FIFA ever gonna just swallow their pride and allow indoor stadiums? Every weather safety issue would be solved just like that, with the magic push of the "Insert Roof Here" button.

    But who am I kidding, this is FIFA we're talking about.
     
  6. whitecloud

    whitecloud Member+

    Jan 25, 2009
    Gulf Shores, AL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    I'm not sure that is actually coming from FIFA, but rather the Qatar WC committee. The USA bid already had proposed multiple domed-roof stadiums and FIFA didn't have a problem with it--University of Phoenix Stadium, Reliant Stadium, Cowboys Stadium, the proposed renovation to Sun Life Stadium, all domed or mostly roofed.
     
  7. Cody667

    Cody667 Member+

    May 10, 2010
    Sudbury, ON
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    England
    Regardless, it's time for someone to tell whichever clowns are making these decisions that the entire world football schedule isn't going to be changed just because they're too stubborn to have indoor stadiums.
     
  8. MrOranjeBal

    MrOranjeBal Member

    Apr 7, 2009
    Club:
    AZ
    Country:
    Netherlands
    #8 MrOranjeBal, Mar 5, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2014
    I think you'll find that it is actually the local organizers, stadium developers, financiers and possibly (future) owners who decide on what a stadium will look like and whether or not it will have a roof, beit fixed or retractable. And looking a little further will also, I think, reveal that those are not the folks deciding on the timing of the WC.
    So I'm not sure which exactly which clowns you expect this certain someone to talk to.
     
  9. Cody667

    Cody667 Member+

    May 10, 2010
    Sudbury, ON
    Club:
    Liverpool FC
    Country:
    England
    This certainly isn't the first time you've missed my point, but regardless:

    The point is, why the hell don't they just make indoor stadiums? The whos and whats are fun for the sole purpose of allocating blame and for determining who the idiots are, which yes, I obviously enjoy as you found from my previous post, but the main thing to take away is that there are no legitimate excuses for stupid propositions such as a winter world cup to take priority over the idea of roofing to allow for indoor, air conditioned venues.
     
  10. Rostam

    Rostam Member

    Dec 11, 2005
    It will be moved to the US of A and you can take that to the bank.
     
  11. MrOranjeBal

    MrOranjeBal Member

    Apr 7, 2009
    Club:
    AZ
    Country:
    Netherlands
    Au contraire. I think, as I shall demontrate below, that you have missed my point entirely. My fault, obviously, as I am not a native in your tongue, nor did I spell out my point:

    I think, you over-simplify the weather safety issues (as you -so eloquently- put it) of a summer WC in Qatar and offer an over-simplified solution.

    A roof & AC-unit are not a panacee for all weather-related problems surrounding a WC in the Qatari summer.

    Just as you over-simplified the reasoning/motivation of 'whichever clowns are make these decisions' to explore other, more complicated (perhaps better) solutions (such as moving it to winter), and over-simplified the root cause for their what you (apparently) perceive as unwillingnes to solve it, when you wrote:

    I think you even managed to subliminally imply a lack of integrity there. ;)

    In the post I replied to, you over-simplfied the communication required to convey such a solution to the powers that be, when you said that 'someone' should just talk to the aforementionned clowns.

    I tried to point that out in my reply by attempting to unravel some of the intricacies, underlying complexities of the decision process required to implement roofing as an afterthought to the stadium designs. Your 'Insert Roof Here'-button.

    The identification of the actual parties involved in such a hypothetical process seemed a good place to start.

    So, to make it clear: I don't agree with you. Things are probably more complicated than that.
    Plus, I question the legitimacy of your claim that FIFA are too proud to allow roofed stadiums. In fact, as another poster already pointed out, there is no evidence at all that FIFA object to 'in-door stadiums'.
    And (iirc) the Qatari bid initially planned for AC in the stadiums. Apparently, they have now shelved that idea. (Have they? Do we know that?)
    If they have, do we know why? Would AC even help? Can one play high-intensity football in conditionned air?
    Can people actually hear their vuvuzelas over the noise of all that cooling capacity burning the Amazon rainforrest? ;)

    Sometimes, I make a point out of missing people's point when that point formulated as another point, like:
    "FIFA are stupid, the Qatari's are corrupt, I don't like a winter WC, and if I were in charge I would do much better! "

    >>> If your point was to pose the question, why a roof and AC-unit would not make it entirely possible to play football in 50C? Is there any reason why such a solution that seems so obvious, is not implemented right away? And what would be needed to do so? Then you are right, then I missed it.
     
  12. MrOranjeBal

    MrOranjeBal Member

    Apr 7, 2009
    Club:
    AZ
    Country:
    Netherlands
    Now I have to go and watch Holland beat France. ;)
     
  13. MrOranjeBal

    MrOranjeBal Member

    Apr 7, 2009
    Club:
    AZ
    Country:
    Netherlands
    Or maybe not.
     
  14. whitecloud

    whitecloud Member+

    Jan 25, 2009
    Gulf Shores, AL
    Club:
    Orlando City SC
    Country:
    United States
    I think there are stakeholders who are itching to pick a fight and elements within FIFA trying to fix the Qatar scheduling problem in the most inconvenient manner possible just spurs that fight into happening.
     
  15. Bubba1971

    Bubba1971 Member+

    Nov 12, 2010
    Los Angeles
    Country:
    United States
    In 1994 games were played at the Silverdome in Detroit.
     
  16. Timanfaya

    Timanfaya Member

    May 31, 2005
    Southampton
    The roof was closed at Gelsenkirchen in 2006 (on one occasion at least). I think it happened at Frankfurt too.
     
  17. jasondask

    jasondask Member

    Jan 31, 2014
    Sydney, Australia
    Being from Australia I was as you can imagine, very disappointed at the decision to award Qatar as it means not until 2034 at the earliest that we could possible have the world cup in this beautiful country.

    However, looking at the silver linings, I see Qatar 2022 as a chance to experience not only Qatar but some of the other nations in the middle east (I've only been to Dubai for a few days) as a holiday.

    Changing the topic slightly to ticket demand:
    How do people think the demand for tickets will compare to other World Cup's? Obviously not at the level of Brazil or Germany - do we think it would be more or less than South Africa?

    It's location will make access from Europe relatively easy compared to South Africa, plus it's fairly central for travelling fans from the rest of Asia so I anticipate it should be a bit higher than SA.
     
  18. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England

    Tickets, depends on the qualifiers. In Asia, they probably need Australia, South Korea, Japan and Iran to qualify to get numbers from Asian region travelling, along with a few other ME nations fans that will want to see Argentina, Brazil, Germany playing for example.

    Location, decent location for Europeans really to travel there. But I suggest and have done before, they take in the region, can base themselves in Dubai, Abu Dhabi, Muscat, Doha but all depends on the budget and flying in on the day of a game or preferably day before to make sure no delays. I'd be tempted to get based in Bahrain (if not Doha itself)

    It's not going to be a cheap world cup for fans in all honesty though.
     
  19. jasondask

    jasondask Member

    Jan 31, 2014
    Sydney, Australia
    How much did you find flights to be in that region to country hop e.g. e.g. Dubai or Bahrain to Qatar? I imagine they would sell any inbound or outbound flights into Qatar at that time at a premium (as you rightly call out.. expensive). It is an interesting thought though.. even to stay in Doha for a week to catch a few games earlier in the tournament then explore the region and come back in for semi's and/or finals for one day at a time? I wanted to do the same for Brazil but flying back in for finals was too expensive so we stuck to two weeks in the middle of the tournament.
     
  20. druryfire

    druryfire Member

    Sep 10, 2007
    England
    It can be done with the flights, but maybe your looking at 65 euros one way possibly? Going with a few people and it's going to add up to the point that you (if was me anyway) would book a two week holiday, have one week in UAE and one week at the football, flying in and out probably won't work and being in Qatar for a whole two weeks would probably bore you... unless you went in the group stage with games everyday and it was solely all about football.

    For me, i'd probably look at going for end of group phase / knock out stage taking into all accounts, flights, accommodation....really isn't going to be cheap even if it was in the worlds poorest countries. Take into account that your fighting with thousands of people for that luxary cheap hotel and it might just be the most stressful travel plan/journey/holiday ever!
     
  21. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    flem16 repped this.
  22. josh.haslam75

    josh.haslam75 Member

    Mar 18, 2014
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Quatar is all with money
     
  23. PanchoM

    PanchoM Member

    Nov 3, 2001
    PalmsPlace

    I suppose this is a lesson from FIFA to all young kids in the world :
    " Crime DOES pay " and "Playing fair is for loosers ".
     
  24. deejay

    deejay Member+

    Feb 14, 2000
    Tarpon Springs, FL
    Club:
    Jorge Wilstermann
    Country:
    Bolivia
    I'm no Qatar supporter but the Telegraph is really reaching here. It's already known that Bin Hammam was bribing Warner to get votes toward the FIFA presidency. Qatar had already distanced itself from him by this time. They thought that having a Qatari as FIFA president would be considered overreach.
     
  25. M

    M Member+

    Feb 18, 2000
    Via Ventisette
    #25 M, Mar 18, 2014
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2014
    That's my suspicion too. Otoh, there are allegations that Warner asked the (English) FA for £2.5m for a "training centre" in exchange for voting for the '18 England bid. It's hardly beyond the realms of possibility that Warner was asking for similar "contributions" from others. Additionally, you have to wonder why Warner supported the Qatar bid rather than the USA. Not that there is anything illegal about that, of course, but it seems an odd thing not to support a bid from the confederation you lead.
     

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