Pulisic: Monaco v Borussia Dortmund, Champions League. 4/19

Discussion in 'Yanks Abroad Gameday' started by wixson7, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. grandinquisitor28

    Feb 11, 2002
    Nevada
    I'm just being a tiresome pedant, there's no problem. :)
     
  2. KenC

    KenC Member+

    Jun 11, 2003
    As a youth coach, I see Dembele as a huge offensive talent, but immature due to his overly selfish play. I know he has a ton of assists, but sometimes stats don't correlate well with the play you see with your own eyes. He should have even MORE assists. It's only coincidental that Pulisic is one of the players who is not getting the ball enough from Dembele. All of his attacking teammates are not getting the ball enough. That's the result of lots of selfish head-down play. He's just over reliant on his own dribbling skills and not trusting his teammates to do some of the heavy lifting. Hopefully some good coaching, and some timely sitting will help him mature and reach his potential.
     
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  3. beerslinger23

    beerslinger23 Member+

    Jun 26, 2010
    #128 beerslinger23, Apr 19, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2017
    Translation: I hate facts when they get in the way of my argument.


    Dembele has higher GPM and APM so if you go by totals or by a more advanced metric then he is still more productive. This isn't a slight on CP who is a little younger and plays a little further back and outside in general but the point is that there is no rational basis to claim Pulisic is the better player. I could accept some argument about how far they play from goal and defensive responsibilities influencing their respective stats but this idea that Pulisic is somehow ahead of Dembele is based on emotion and nothing else.
     
  4. y-lee-coyote

    y-lee-coyote Member+

    Dec 4, 2012
    Club:
    --other--

    I don't see the need to be insulting or to be constantly interjecting DJT into the conversation. It tends to shut down discourse and that defeats the purpose.

    As to your love of stats, I can do real math and there is a reason that this game routinely defies statistical analysis. Speaking of those numbers about assists and such per game, I don't think Dembele has played WB and Pulisic has played that spot for 3 or 4 games early on IIRC. Dembele plays more 9/10 ish role whereas Pulisic has mostly featured in more 7/11 type roles. Pulisic got a couple of looks more central at Dortmund and I thought he did well, but I do not think he is developed enough physically to handle that game in game out. For stats to have comparative value, they really need to be representing the same things.

    There is a world of difference between the two players experience and physical maturity by virtue of Dembele being a year older and being almost a year exactly ahead of him professionally. So there are some problems just looking at stats when the two players have clearly not played the same roles for their club.

    I like Ousmane, but I would pay more for CP than Dembele. I would keep both if it were me. If you think either player can be had for the listed transfers, you are in need of a reality check. Dortmund turned down more than that for CP before he became a vital part of their first team.

    I think CP is a better player than Ousmane because he is the type of player that makes everybody around him better. Pulisic needs to mature physically, which is a much easier fix than what Dembele needs to do.

    I do not think those are RWB glasses, I definitely see that Ousmane is some kind of sick dude with the ball at his feet. The risk reward payoff has been acceptable thus far, but he was again poor in a big game. I do think his problem is between the ears, and he just needs to not try to do it all by himself if the defense is going to ignore his teammates not named Auba.

    We shall see, they will both be back at BVB next season., with or without Auba and/or Tuchel.
     
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  5. salvikicks

    salvikicks Member+

    Mar 6, 2006
    Los Angeles
    Club:
    Los Angeles Galaxy
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I don't use them for any argument in any sport. I'm not even saying Pulisic is better, they're different types of players with different sets of skills. You can see stats and think Ronaldo was the better player vs Bayern when Marcelo contributed a lot more on both ends of the field.
     
  6. thedukeofsoccer

    thedukeofsoccer Member+

    Jul 11, 2004
    Wussconsin
    Club:
    AFC Ajax
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    #131 thedukeofsoccer, Apr 20, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
    Dembele is the greater talent. He runs by multiple players at a time sometimes as if they weren't even there. As a prospect, attributes like that, and raw production (closer to goal on average) means you're worth more. He could be the next Ronaldo. Pulisic doesn't have as much upside. Doesn't mean he's not a better player now.

    You're pushing this angle a lot, but you can't ignore that Dembele has tunnel vision that is often times detrimental to a team who could win without him, and last year did more, when Pulisic was part of the rotation the 2nd half. Dembele just makes more big plays, but that's what he's going for. He'll make a pass that has a 5% chance of coming off as an assist, ignoring something like an easy outlet to players like Pulisic, who then may have more like a 10-15% chance of recording an assist. If Dembele made the simple play more often he'd have a lower assist total and Pulisic a higher one as the recipient. I don't know if he's selfish, but it's wrong, and he's deservedly controversial. Hard to tell if he's helping or hurting a European power at this point. They don't need him to play hero ball if they have the talent they do. Tuchel just needs to utilize his attacking ones, when everybody is available. Under that scenario, I can take or leave Dembele right now.

    I think it would behoove Dortmund to see if he's a problem by playing Pulisic and Schurrle/Mor opposite each other, with Reus/Kagawa in the hole, Guerreiro behind him, and Aubama up top. 10 points clear in that last Champion's league spot, and still in the Cup at least, they're in a position to do this. The status quo isn't working that well by BVB's standards.
     
  7. bct81

    bct81 Member+

    multiple (DC United, Dortmund, Arsenal, Leeds....)
    United States
    Mar 17, 2007
    moving around the US every few years ....
    Club:
    DC United
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    After carefully rewatching this match, and watching all the BVB BL matches I can, I actually don't think that Dembele was that selfish (compared to how bad he has been elsewhere). He and Pulisic both did well when they played, and frankly this poor total performance is on Tuchel. Just a wrong lineup and setup and strategy from the starting whistle. They needed to attack from the start and put Monaco on their heels. The player that was not a factor here was Aubemayang. Normally Auba, Dembele, Pulisic and either Kagawa/Reuss/Guerrero are a better group to pin the opponent back with.
     
  8. smokarz

    smokarz Member+

    Aug 9, 2006
    Hartford, CT
    Money talks, people.

    I think the Dembele is better than Pulisic, or vice versa, should be put to bed this summer or next.

    Rumor in the market is MU has been scouting Pulisic regularly, while Liverpool, BM, and Tottenham should be entering a bidding war for Pulisic's signature? With offer expect to be in the $50M range?

    Any rumors for which clubs are targeting Dembele this summer?

    Both are great young players, no doubts. I see Dembele as fitting the mold of a Ronado or Robben. Extremely gifted and talented attacker/winger, but does not necessarily make the entire team better. Portugal won the cup WITHOUT Ronaldo. Messi is till not able to bring a CUP to Argentina. Championships are won by teams, not a player.

    Pulisic on the other hand has the potential to develop into a Xavi, Iniesta, or Pirlo. A player that just elevate the entire team, and make everyone around better.

    If I was manager, building a solid team I would definitely want to build around a Pulisic type player, versus a Dembele. But once I have a Pulisic, then Dembele is a very nice to have.

    But I guess that's probably why I am not manager, and sitting here in the comfort of my own chair and posting on BS :)
     
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