Pre-match: Protests, the Anthem, and the Flag discussion

Forcing people who are not American citizens (i.e., coaching staff) to stand while the US anthem is playing is very banana republic, TBH. The sort of regulation you expect from the Venezuelan or North Korean soccer federations.

 

Just imagine what it's like to go through the tedium every game for players who come to this country to play pro soccer temporarily. Anecdotally a number of them say it's exasperating and point out the practice only takes place in the types of countries who you named who we're supposedly ideologically divergent to.

 

True, it's ridiculous. No one else does that for a reason. The whole chest-thumping patriotism-for-show is considered very ooga-booga around the world, at this point, too.

 

I'd be fine getting rid of it before MLS games, although it's worth pointing out that games involving the Canadian teams (who have more American players than Canadian) also have their anthem played.

I fully support the rights of athletes on club teams, including MLS, to kneel during the anthem if they wish, national team game is a different story.

 

I have never understood this line of authoritative reasoning, by making the action compulsory you rob it of all legitimate meaning. It is no longer an action of and by those who invest it with some patriotic fervor (which I never understood at sporting events to begin with) and have instead made it a mundane and mechanical action robbed of its initial purpose and symbolism.

 

Yes, it is ironic that anyone would demand or even pressure someone into saluting a supposed symbol of freedom. This has been pointed out regularly by voices of reason during the last week's events. Although as far as the national team, the freedom lies in accepting call-ups or not, at least for the players. Foreign coaches are just doing a job, as club players regardless of nationality.

As far as the purpose of it being a tradition at all, I never thought it made sense from pretty much the beginning either, without looking into it further until recent years. Once you do, you understand the (diabolical) purpose. It's rooted in propaganda to get people to go along with the efforts of WW1 which they were initially opposed to. Naturally serves the same purpose today.

 

Couldn't even begin to make sense of what where you're from has to do with a philosophy and why being from Oregon makes you care less about the interests of Americans.

 

I don't think you really get where I am coming from, (philosophically not geographically). I think that it's a great and wonderful thing when people are moved to do something of their own free will as an expression, people moved by passion and standing and singing their national anthem for example. I think that is wonderful.

I just think that making something like that compulsory taints and detracts from the honest demonstration being shown by those who are truly moved. In addition to which, in this particular instance we are talking about a group of people celebrating freedom specifically, which can't help but be at odds with making the act compulsory.

Politically speaking I am not speaking politically. However, I feel compelled to add that I am definitely not the granola eating Portland liberal you mistook me for and whatever I may in fact be, I have strong Orange County California, golf course Republican roots.

Essentially what I am saying is somewhat like the Groucho Marx maxim that I wouldn't want to belong to any club that would have me for a member. Why would you want to be part of a club that authoritatively forces people to join your club?

 

^^ which is why I don't think NFL, MLS, etc. players should have to stand for the anthem.

National team is a different story. Don't want to stand for the anthem? Turn down the callup.

 

It's like trying to explain quantum chromodynamics to your cat.

PS: I didn't put "dog" because I feel they may actually grasp the concept.

 

And just to be crystal clear, here is a video of me and a few of my close personal Portland motherfing Oregon friends disrespecting the flag and anthem:

 

If it comes down to kneeling vs standing the whole team should stand or the whole team should kneel. We dont need division sparking in our most important game this cycle.

On a regular day, we beat Panama 2-0 with lots of possession and clean up our qualifying debacle. With distractions, it gets rough.

Pulisic should play middle. Odds are Panama goes with 4-4-2 meaning there will be gaps between their attack and midfield. If Pulisic preoccupies the 2 CMs their shape will eventually crumble. Put on a guy who runs off a defenders shoulders like Wood.

For Arenas purposes tell Bradley his only job for the night is to make sure Panamas front two never run at the back 4.

A guy like Kljestan can dictate and follow Pulisic runs. Please dont play Zardes on the wing. Nagbe is ok for now

Bring on Acosta later to help track back and finish the game.

 

There are a hell of a lot better ways to demonstrate some social injustice than to do it on the field of sports in uniform. Fans money is paying for you to do a job and they don't give a crap about your social injustice stuff. Feel strong about something? Great, hold a rally. Have a press conference. Sports is way better without all the political crap. Sports have enough issues on their own without adding in this shit.

 

The point is not about what they do or fail to do. The point is about making mandatory what is only worthy when is done spontaneously.

For clubs, around the world, nearly anything goes. For national teams, I think the smart thing is to leave anything partisan & identity politics aside.

But that's my personal view. If I passed a law to enforce it, it'd be going against personal freedoms. It'd be self-defeating.

 

Then oppose the intertwining of political/war propaganda that is the incessant playing the national anthem at sporting events. The politics/sport crossover is already in the tradition and can't be had both ways.

 

Again, that's a fair conversation to have for club games (regardless of sport), but we're talking about a national team game

 

True in that case, but he was speaking about sports in general.

 

I would have been up there and I would have been sitting as I always sat during the anthem for the 4 years I was a season ticket holder. I stick to my decision to do so.

 

I know this is off topic but this is an interesting conversation for me at this time partly because, for the first time in my 30 yr teaching career, we are being asked to have the students recite the pledge of allegiance. It is recited once per day but seems to be done almost at random so that I have had several different groups of kids for the experience. The first few times, several kids asked if they had to stand and recite the pledge of allegiance. I told them they don't HAVE to do anything. I personally feel that simply standing for the pledge of allegiance is really just a sign of respect for those that do feel strongly about it. I also told them that if they feel strongly about protesting, then that is part of their right as well but it would be more effective if people understood that it was a protest and not simply indifference, which sitting (at least for a high school student) might otherwise indicate. If it was a protest than something like taking a knee or something quiet but obvious (raised fist ala Tommy Smith and Juan Carlos) is more effective. I gave the example of standing quietly for the foreign national anthem at sporting events out of respect for the foreign country which it is assumed that we have no allegiance to.

I apologize to those that would rather not read my ramblings about standing for the national anthem but you didn't have to read to the end.

 

IMHO, your "ramblings" is much worthy reading than what I read in this thread in the past couple of days/week (repetitive constructive/else idiotioc remarks one after the other)... bottom line, whoever is the starting 11, regardless of politics, we know we will support them and know that win, lose, or draw, they did the best they could and we (atleast me) won't hold it against them... especially when they take 3 points at home!! ¡Vamos USA!

 

Dude,I'm just tryna look edgy so Susie will notice me!Lighten up!

 

Huh? if they can't beat Panama they're all dead to me.

 

This take is so hot it's caused the Earth's temperature to raise by .2C.

Players expressing a belief during a completely idiotic "tradition" of forced nationalism has absolutely not impact on a fan's ability to enjoy a game they're attending. Especially since most fans either don't pay attention or are grabbing beer during said display of forced nationalism.

 

I think there's a pretty easy solution to this problem. Just have all of our players take a knee during the playing of Panama's national anthem. This misplaced show of 'solidarity' should serve to bring Panama's players out of their anticipated defensive shell, and might even lead to an early red card (or two). Later, with a win safely secured, President Trump can issue a heartfelt apology to Panamanians everywhere. [Two birds with one stone, as it were.]