Project24 - Stage 4 - Arsenal v Everton

Discussion in 'Arsenal' started by crazy150, Sep 21, 2018.

  1. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    Didn't mean for the call to prove anything, I just like watching it. :)

    I'm pretty sure I've heard him say he's an Arsenal fan, but I don't have any link to it in print.
     
  2. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    1044600419148877825 is not a valid tweet id


    Interesting datapoint here: Arsenal's high press has gotten worse under Emery (Arsenal were actually good at winning the ball via the press over the last few seasons).

    Well, that or Arsenal are pressing less in order to defend against the counter, but that hasn't worked at all.
     
  3. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    I haven’t seen much pressing the last 4 games to be honest. The high line needs work for sure.
     
  4. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    That seems like a pretty big statistical oversite doesn't it? Or is the assumption of individual talent built into the stat. A bad pass, that needs a elite finish, technically falls within the realm of expected outcome. If the only measure is player and ball GPS location.

    There are times I can specifically recall not making a pass because the strikers body position was off, or his angle was wrong. I'm curious how that is built into the stat, if it is at all.
     
  5. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Are you talking about XG?

    It is based on a league average striker from that location

    The whole point is to isolate the value of the shooting locations
     
  6. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    The concept is that there's a variance for each datapoint, but it averages out in the end.
     
  7. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Thinking about it, because locations is a key component of striker quality, over a season the quality of your forwards will be reflected in the XG for
     
  8. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Cool I have it now.
     
  9. NorthBank

    NorthBank Member+

    Arsenal; NYRB
    United States
    Mar 29, 2006
    Connecticut
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I remember looking in years past and finding nothing. But just now I googled and this was the only hit I read:
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/exclusive-martin-tyler-opens-up-11835667

    Near the bottom he reveals his club... Woking! "CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT?!!" ;)
     
  10. BIGHMW

    BIGHMW Member+

    Oct 10, 2010
    Port Townsend, WA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    I seem to notice he is so much more into a match on Sky's domestic telecasts for the UK as opposed to the international feeds, in which we get here in the States, here is the Martin Tyler that is SO more into it on Sky:

     
  11. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Interesting Cech repeated the same stories about Arsenal not working hard enough under Wumger

    One upside now is with the likes of Mhki, Laca, etc floating about - there is genuine competition for places
     
  12. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    The other problem with XG is its accuracy. For example, last season it underpredicted the league goals total by about 30 goals i think.
     
  13. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    Wouldn't that be very accurate?

    around 3% error
     
  14. footykid

    footykid Member+

    Jan 10, 2005
    Mississauga, Ont
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    France
    Less than a goal every match week doesn't seems within reason imo. But I'm more interested in its variance when measuring a "big chance".
     
  15. Tonerl

    Tonerl Member+

    Arsenal
    May 10, 2006
    Cincinnati, OH
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    United States
    The 'big chance' stat is purely subjective, though. That's just OPTA trackers making a call on a case by case basis. xG is a completely different animal.

    Now, some guys with xG models may refer to a specific shot as a 'big chance' based on how their model rates it, but it's not the 'official' stat.
     
  16. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Don't a number of xG models use "big chance" indicators as a metric?
     
  17. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium

    IIRC yes
     
  18. crazy150

    crazy150 Member+

    Aug 27, 2006
    North Cuba
    I guess it depends on how you use the data. The year prior it underestimated by 80 goals. Haven’t looked at other leagues/seasons yet. Also half of the teams were off by more than 10 percent with Chelsea a whopping 23 goals off (27%).

    Could possibly be just a variation that will regress to the mean over time or could also mean the models are systemically missing something. I suspect the latter.

    Not to say it isn’t useful at identifying things, but just don’t put too much into it—yet.
     
  19. wanye_stirrear

    wanye_stirrear Member+

    Sep 19, 2002
    Maryland
    You guys care way too much about statistics.
     
    thebigman repped this.
  20. mebeSajid

    mebeSajid Member+

    Feb 16, 2009
    Atlanta, GA
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    It's more that we're bored. I barely pay attention to stats when I'm busy.
     
  21. thebigman

    thebigman Member+

    May 25, 2006
    Birmingham
    Club:
    Arsenal FC
    Nat'l Team:
    England
    Yea, stats are important but sometimes ea this place sucks the fun out of a game
     
  22. The Jitty Slitter

    The Jitty Slitter Moderator
    Staff Member

    Bayern München
    Germany
    Jul 23, 2004
    Fascist Hellscape
    Club:
    FC Sankt Pauli
    Nat'l Team:
    Belgium
    I miss the 80s when you just got vomit drunk and shouted homophobic insults at the opposition
     

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