Don’t see how you can go dogso on the almiron foul unless you take distance out of the considerations. That having been said, almiron’s big touch meant that no one in the premier league is gonna catch him and the reason dogso exists is to punish severely this exact sort of cynicism. Vc (or sfp) seems to be a bit of a stretch given the physicality allowed in the premier league, but it does cross the mind, doesn’t it?
It’s really not, though. And this is going to be a huge wake up call for EPL fans next season. That’s a foul, sure. But that isn’t always given as a penalty. It’s a fact of life. If VAR was meant to call every defensive foul in the penalty area, we’d average three penalties per game. Just take a look at a few clear fouls in MLS this year when PRO then said the threshold wasn’t met for VAR intervention. “Yes, that’s a penalty” does not translate to “Yes, not calling a penalty is clearly wrong and VAR needs to intervene there.” If the standard was simply “is that a penalty?” then we would just have VARs re-referee everything and send down a lot more than they do now. Is that enough for VAR intervention? It’s close. I think in some competitions, yes. In MLS, probably no (though maybe with some VARs). But if anyone thinks that’s a stonewall VAR intervention, they haven’t been paying attention these past two years. The big problem for England, again, is that there will be no OFRs if the FA holds the line. The VAR would simply tell Oliver to award a penalty. Imagine being Oliver and having that happen? Something you thought was simply a coming together and tangle of legs is now a penalty. And you have to award it. And you don’t get to see it. Staggeringly foolish plan from the FA...
Why not? Distance is a consideration. There’s no black and white line. You should consider it and then make your assessment. Your very next line was that no one in the league would catch him. The distance obviously isn’t enough to negate an OGSO in your mind. So in what way have you actually considered distance, other than to conclude it’s too far (even though you actually concluded it isn’t)? I know why Taylor went yellow. It’s REALLY far and a lot can happen over 70 yards. I know what @RedStar91 is saying and I can see why PGMOL might back him or even want the yellow. But for me the cynicism, the speed of play, the deliberate nature of the foul, and the two on zero scenario trumps the distance. I believe I’d go red. Bit of a war story but I had a situation like this a few years ago. Amateur match but with an assessor from PRO. Fastest guy in the league gets yanked down by his shirt in the center circle but inside his own half. So about 60 yards from goal. Knowing what I knew about the player in question and the player expectations, I went red. Assessor said in an amateur match, yellow is preferred there because the distance created too much uncertainty for a non-professional player (he even cited the uneven playing surface). That said, he admitted had this been a USL match, I probably have to go red. So he bought into the idea that this is more red at the pro level than the amateur level. Thankfully, he said he wouldn’t mark it as a missed KMI in either setting.
There were 10-12 yards between a flying attacker and the next closest defender. That is the "distance" that is at issue here. Not a chance he catches him. DOGSO.
This is where I honestly don't get where the "clear and obvious" line is, and whether it's from the referee's perspective or from watching replays. I completely get what you are saying about this not being clear and obvious. However, if we use the NFL-style standard of "clear visual evidence", I think it's a penalty on replay. Vertonghen doesn't get the ball. That's definitely identified on the video replay. However, this foul isn't one of those where I can watch it and say at live speed on my TV "That's absolutely a foul". At live speed, I initially thought it was a good no-call. I don't think I'd call that on the field in one of my games. I'm just glad I'm not one of the people charged with trying to come up with some sort of consistent or objective standard to apply for plays like this!
I am 100% with you on this. Trying to turn something subjective into something objective is a recipe for ending up like Basketball.
Well, of course I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, and I appreciate you including your experience because that’s as straight from the (pro) horse’s mouth as you can get (and quite analogous to the current discussion). But the first consideration is distance. Perhaps that doesn’t mean it’s the most important. Given the genesis and spirit of that part of the law, I would have loved Taylor to have gone red, because that would have been instructive that speed must trump distance. But he didn’t. Is not the “lesson” then that there is a distance beyond which a dogso scenario is merely tactical misconduct?
To be fair, in my personal situation we were smack in the center of the park and only 5 yards short of midfield. So not completely analogous. But ballpark.
Peter Walton gave his opinion. https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/spo...ewcastle-united-southampton-red-card-16159034 “I think it’s the right decision. The reason it’s the right decision is it’s far too away from goal and who knows what is to happen at that time. It’s not an obvious goalscoring opportunity and a yellow is the right call,”
I think your argument is too general tbh. Sure you need a general principle/standard for when VAR intervenes but you then need to apply it to each individual case to see if it should intervene. And in this specific case I'd say that if you polled anyone not being a Spurs supporter you would easily get 95% thinking it should have been a PK.
Well that’s the “what does football expect?” standard, right? That’s the closest we seem to be to a definition of “clearly wrong” (other than objective offside and handling, where no one has consistent expectations). The question is what the threshold is. 95%? 90%? 75%?
CAR:LIV Around 67’ Announcer whining about a back pass non-call. Pretty certain defender played it with his knee. Anyone else see this?
I am watching Brighton and Spurs. The announcer just said that Chris Kavanaugh Had done this fixture in September. Does anyone know if that is common or extremely rare?
I'd say rare, but not extremely rare in the sense that it happens once a decade. Maybe a few times a year? I distinctly remember at least one other case in the past month or two.
Wat v Sou fastest goal in EPL history comes after Sou attacker jumps and blocks a ball with his elbow, which deflects way upfield and he scores. I guess this is the sort of thing will be disallowed next year.
I would imagine this time of year sees more weighting toward "do we have the right referee on this game?" and less weighting toward "has this referee already done this game earlier this season?" Spurs-Brighton has Champions League and relegation implications, so it makes sense to have one of your FIFAs or your more experienced referees (i.e. Atkinson or Marriner assuming he's in form - definitely a valid question right now) on these games.
In case you didn't see it, NBC finally admitted they were wrong, after the same player pulled off the same play on Sunday. And yes, I am the "Mark" to whom Robbie Mustoe tweeted back, and who subsequently got dunked on viciously on Twitter. Haven't posted on BS in years but I did come to this thread to see whether or not I was crazy (and had been trained wrong). A couple weeks ago, Everton's Lucas Digne took a throw-in against Arsenal which led to a goal, but his foot was both on and over the line. Today, he did the same thing. Our team spoke to the head of the Professional Referees Association in the UK to clarify the rule. 👇 pic.twitter.com/f114afpCQl— NBC Sports Soccer (@NBCSportsSoccer) April 21, 2019
Do some referees work center almost every matchday? If I did the math right, a referee who works 35 games chosen randomly has an 82.2 percent chance at having at least one pair of clubs both times. Wolverhampton held on to win 2-1 at Watford after bad decisions. Wolverhampton should have been given a penalty kick when a defender hit the Wolverhampton player's legs before the ball. Then Watford committed DOGSO-F. A Wolverhampton player was in his own half when he was fouled by the last defender. The defender got a yellow. It wasn't shown live, but during the stoppage, the defender pushed a Wolverhampton player and could have been given a second yellow for that, but he wasn't. The announcers talked about if it was enough force to warrant a yellow for striking an opponent. The player who was pushed exaggerated the force, but he wasn't faking contact. Whether a straight red was given for DOGSO or a yellow for DOGSO and a second yellow for pushing, the Watford player should have been sent off.
Michael Oliver has worked about 27 Premier League matches this year. I checked Moss and Atkinson too and they are around that number. Oliver has done 42 total matches this season.
Hererra had to have committed three last chance fouls. Plus, some really bad fouls going unpunished, as in, missed.
Matchweek 37 Kick-offs are 15:00 BST unless stated otherwise. Friday, 3 May 20:00 Everton v Burnley Referee: Chris Kavanagh Assistants: Daniel Cook, Mick McDonough Fourth official: Anthony Taylor Saturday, 4 May 12:30 AFC Bournemouth v Spurs Referee: Craig Pawson Assistants: Ian Hussin, Darren Cann Fourth official: Simon Hooper West Ham v Southampton Referee: Stuart Attwell Assistants: Stephen Child, Constantine Hatzidakis Fourth official: Martin Atkinson Wolves v Fulham Referee: Jonathan Moss Assistants: Marc Perry, Andy Halliday Fourth official: Chris Kavanagh 17:30 Cardiff City v Crystal Palace Referee: Michael Oliver Assistants: Stuart Burt, Simon Bennett Fourth official: Graham Scott 19:45 Newcastle United v Liverpool Referee: Andre Marriner Assistants: Lee Betts, Simon Long Fourth official: Kevin Friend Sunday, 5 May 14:00 Chelsea v Watford Referee: Paul Tierney Assistants: Eddie Smart, Adrian Holmes Fourth official: David Coote 14:00 Huddersfield Town v Man Utd Referee: Lee Mason Assistants: Harry Lennard, Scott Ledger Fourth official: Mike Dean 16:30 Arsenal v Brighton Referee: Anthony Taylor Assistants: Gary Beswick, Adam Nunn Fourth official: Graham Scott Monday, 6 May 20:00 Man City v Leicester City Referee: Mike Dean (pictured) Assistants: Roger West, Dan Robathan Fourth official: Lee Mason Some tough matches this weekend. Title race heats up. Mike Dean with the big one. Marriner has a decent match as well. Mike Oliver has a match that can finally be the game to take Cardiff off life-support. Anthony Taylor has an interesting fixture as Arsenal need the win to keep pressure on Chelsea and Brighton look for points against Arsenal as a tie would essentially seal their 17th place. Or a Cardiff tie/loss (which looks likely). Brighton will face man city on championship sunday.
Makes some sense to have your top two referees on the Brighton and Cardiff games as relegation stakes are so high right now - especially when you can put Dean on the Man City-Leicester game. Marriner's game could be really interesting . . .